War is a horrible thing. An even more horrible thing is to not fight to defend yourself or others. To let someone similar to Hitler have power again. Shouldn't we have learned something from that? Aren't we supposed to learn from history? That's the point of studying it in the first place, to me anyway.

I'm not for war. Never have been, never will be. There comes a time when you have to stand up to bullies though. That's what is going on here. In my opinion anyway.

wench, Many, many people share your opnion.

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Eudaimonia

Wench.... I'm sorry to say this but Look back at history.... if you look hard enouph you will find that History repeats its self over and over again..

Yes Look at Hitler.. then look at Napolean.. then look at Caesar...

all wanting to take over the world... all being called the Anti Christ and now Saddom is also being called the Anti Christ and there are many many more.. another is Lennon and Stallin and so on... but these were also Great people in History too... they did Great things many of wich alot of people dissagreed with but still great things....

And yes War is a horrible thing.. Look at WWII... Women started working and taking Jobs from men, cause they were needed to work and help with the war effort and then the government came in and raised taxes and everything else to make it so that today Both men and women need to work just pay the monthly bills..

I"m not trying to be sexist, tho it may sound like I am... but look at what war has done for our economy.... in WWII it had brought us out of debt by creating more jobs for every one...

Yes the Death is a horrible thought.. I have friends and Family over there on the front lines and I don't like it but I also don't like it when Friends and family are killed for the simple reason of making the point that the US is not INVINCABLE.... and so on.....

and Wench.. I'm sorry if I sound like I"m talking directly to you and sounding like I'm angry about somthing you had said,, Because I'm not.. and it isn't my intention to make it osund that way I just don't know a different way to say it right now.. please for give me.....*On hands and Kneese pleading, Kissing Wenches feet in between words*

E

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Yea I'm Here, Let the Party Begin

My only hope is that the blood we pay out for this war is worth what we get in return.

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My Corset Pictures My Feathers My Legs My 'get to know me' pics
Love's Bitch, the writings of my mind

I totally agree with you, Gilly and Jay_ba. War may have been inevitable, but I think Bush went about it the wrong way and too soon. I don't think he cared what the other countries of the world or the UN had to say. He had his mind made up from the get go. I think our government is arrogant as hell. Can you imagine if the leader of another country said, "OK, Bush, you and your family have 48 hours to leave the United States or we attack." One of my nephews and one of my sons, who turns 20 on 3/25, are over there. Another of my sons may be joining them shortly. Like you said, Gilly, "My only hope is that the blood we pay out for this war is worth what we get in return."

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Communication is the key.

I think we're all hoping it turns out to be worth it.

(I'm not mad at you NS. Cute tactic though.)

Here's a good article about our role in this mess.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/878833.asp#BODY

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Communication is the key.

BlueSwede,

I believe this particular mess started 24 years ago, with the ascension of Saddam Hussein to power. This mess is just about over.

With good will, good judgment, and good luck, what will follow will be better for all.

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Eudaimonia

Ahhh...good ole MSNBC and Newsweek now that is unbiased news.

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Love...the slowest form of suicide.

Skipthisone,

Now be nice. MSNBC is much better than anything available in Baghdad.

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Eudaimonia

Hey Skip you can have your choice MSNBC or Fox News, Both very strait(~) reporting. LOL

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BlueSwede,

Actually, GWB is following in the footsteps of a Good Old Democrat, WJ Clinton! In 1994 the government of Haiti, under President Jonassaint was told to leave office.

"After receiving permission from President Clinton, Jimmy Carter, General Colin Powell, and Senator Sam Nunn (D-Ga.) flew to Haiti for negotiations on September 17, just thirty-six hours prior to the scheduled launch of the invasion forces..."
Clinton and Coercive Diplomacy: A Study of Haiti, Sarah Bermeo, Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Princeton University, January 18, 2001
The agreement was signed on September 17. "The day after the agreement was signed American troops came ashore in Haiti under the command of Lieutenant General Hugh Shelton to help train police and rebuild the Haitian nation. A few weeks later leaders of the Cedras government left the country and Aristide returned on October 15, 1994, as agreed to in Carter-brokered agreement. " Ibid

Do you recall anyone protesting about the arrogance of President Clinton then? Although I try to keep up with foreign affairs, I sure don't.

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Eudaimonia

Oops, I forgot the url

http://www.wws.princeton.edu/~cases...ercivedipl.html

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Eudaimonia

~NEWS FLASH~
My wife has Fox News on!At the bottom of the picture,there is a
scroll.It said that thousands of anti-war protesters had gathered
in front of the US embassy in Paris.(suprise,suprise,Paris,FRANCE)
They had also destroyed a McDonalds resturant in Paris.I didn't
want it to have to come to this,but Ronald McDonald is going to
have to turn in his clown suit,for fatigues!The only problem is that
when I was in,they called those,ankle high(workboot like)black,
laceup,boots,Brogans(sp?)I'm not sure that they make a size,big-
enough,for Ronald.He might have to dye those red things black!
Irish

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

Now try and remember..............I DIDN'T WRITE THIS! It just seemed like something worthwhile to pass along!

*ducks down low.......and hopes for the best as I am getting tired of being "American" bashed!*




London Daily Mirror

No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. Just a word of background for those of you who aren't familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror. This is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic.

Tony Parsons ... Daily Mirror ... September 11, 2002

One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate.

Surely there could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil. But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance.

Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier than Europeans -- but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children -- not just Americans, but from dozens of countries -- were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?

What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn.

And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter? These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan.

The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.

The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September
11.

Remember... remember... remember... the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.

Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.

Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive.

Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.

Remember... remember... And realize that America has never retaliated for
9/11 in anything like the way it could have. So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked up without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex. So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.

AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq -- that's what a democracy is for.

How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of
9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street.

America watched all of that -- and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell" if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived. But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand -- assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting.

I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be -- rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system.

America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that. Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.

To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, Oh Mighty One!

Remember... remember... September 11. One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America. No, do more than remember. Never forget. Pass it on.

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Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.

~Thomas Dewar~