As I said before, it's not my sister who's the 'problem family member', in fact, she keeps me sane, it's my Mother who is the problem, and that makes the dynamic slightly more complex.

Giving advice to someone 30 years your senior, which they then ignore makes you feel as though you're wasting your time.....

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Lou is talking about her mother in this thread.

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oh I'm sorry Lou. But mother, daughter, sister, whatever, I think that the same advice should apply. With family, I think you have to do what you feel is the right thing to do regardless if there is an age difference.

That's just the problem though Cass...what IS the right thing to do?

I feel that by supporting her even after she's ignored my advice, I'm somehow engaging some kind of positive reinforcement of her bad choices. Would I be more effective in her learning from her mistakes if I didn't try to advise her.

Plus there's the issue of doing the right thing by everyone else in my life, and, I believe that my future husband should be my number one priority (her man is her number one priority - always has been since we were tiny children) and that her disasters are going to have to be dealt with on her own from now on.

I just can't get away from feeling like I should keep trying to help, even though it can be a destructive thing for my own happiness and well being.

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"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

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Lou, you sure are in a tough position. The only thing I can suggest is maybe choosing battles from time to time. You mention how you are torn between the compelling urge to keep helping and your own happiness. Perhaps you can find a small battle of hers that you walk away from and see what reaction is produced. Baby steps, start small and gain confidence that what you are doing is okay for her and for you.

(((Lou)))

I just reread some of your posts, Lou . . . I don't mean to sound harsh but it seems you went to check on your mum when a neighbour called & it may have been for appearance's sake yet you were worried.

Could you call a family meeting & have other family members back you up? Try telling her that it's upsetting to the family to see her self-destruct. You've done what you can for her & now she's going to have to deal on her own.

Yeah, I'm a cold bitch sometimes but it ends up being about your own self-preservation after a while. She sounds pretty selfish (again, apologies if I'm off the mark or sound harsh) & may not even care that she's causing you stress.

When my mother gets dramatic, I lose respect for her & pull back (especially when her problems are self-inflicted & could easily be resolved).

You can lead a horse to water . . .

Steph, that's pretty much the mind set I'm in at the moment...what you're saying does not sound harsh at all.

She's going through a manically happy stage at the moment, because of the new man in her life, and the rest of us are getting treated really badly because of it, which makes me feel more and more that I'm doing the right thing by backing off and not getting drawn into interfering with her life. After all, there's no point investing too much in someone who treats you badly when she's happy, and rides rough shod over your needs/responsibilities/wants when she's in need.

I think you said it all Steph, with your last sentence....it's a tack I'm trying to take, but it's not that easy when it's someone you love.

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"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

((((((Lou))))))

My mother was concerned only about herself and what people thought of her. For me, the turning point was when she freaked out at me for no reason when I flew down for a vacation in 2002. She seeks attention at any cost and it's really draining.

I think perhaps why people seek your counsel is the same reason they seek mine.

We've seen our mothers act like giggly school girls when things are going well for them but they're like Joan Crawford in "Mommy Dearest" otherwise.

Therapy helped me just cut her off. Well, I'll still talk to her but I've let her know I can't listen to her hypochondriac ramblings nor her summaries of what she saw on CNN that day.

I really don't feel guilty. I refuse to baby her especially since she was mostly cold towards me.

I've dealt with similar personality types in life. They go away when they realize you won't hold their hand and nod emphatically as they ramble about Drama 6778305. Improve your life don't ramble about how fucked it is.

Another overshare brought to you by the number 666 and the letter X.

(((((Steph)))))

I think we definitely share some common ground here.....a lot of what you just said is stuff I can relate to.

Glad to know I'm not alone in this respect.

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I'm glad you can comprehend the fun I had, too.

I took the cold road, though. I just couldn't deal with it anymore. There were some crazy stuff in the family that made me realize she was truly selfish.

Concentrate on your fun life. She'll leave you alone when she realizes you're not going to listen to her soap opera digests. I swear!

Lou, we have to make a pact never to let your Mom meet my Dad.

In your original post, you asked about giving advice to someone who wasn't going to take it....and whether you should bother. Personally, I don't think it matters so long as you know you're shouting down a well. But I also get the impression that whether you give the advice at the beginning of the drama or not isn't really the problem. I may be projecting myself a little too much here...so go ahead and tell me I've got it wrong...but even if I didn't advise the person who's created their own crisis...I'd STILL be stuck trying to clean it up.

[I tried to figure out how to write the next part without just talking about myself....but I'm failing. Sorry if this all sounds a bit too "me me me"ish.] I know that Jeckle and Hyde routine. The woman in his life is the center of the universe, whether she's worthy of it or not. And because he isn't terribly picky, she's usually more "not." But the problems in his world can't possibly be caused by this goddess of all things good, so it must be the job...the neighbors...fate...or most often it was blamed on the kids. We have collectively been blamed, berated, emotionally neglected and/or abused, sent to counseling, prevented from going to counseling that was working, yelled at, ignored, and kicked out before graduating high school (each of us got some of those treats, not all)....all to maintain the myth that The Relationship is good and should be preserved. And those were the good days. The bad days were when the woman of the moment finally left and he lost interest in life. Now we're largely grown up and out of it...and the rules have changed a bit. He doesn't have as big an impact on our day to day lives...but man can he lay down a long distance guilt trip. He doesn't demand we come clean up his mess...he demands that we hear his semi-suicidal musings and NOT take action, otherwise we couldn't feel sufficiently powerless I guess.

Learning how to deal with all this, I once had a therapist tell me, "they wouldn't call it tough love if it were easy." It hurts like hell. It wouldn't be worth it if the other option wasn't basically a slow ego death. A friend described him as one of those people who refuse to help themselves, but want company as they circle the drain, and can't love you enough to want to spare you the experience. I do as much as I can, but I don't do anything more than that. It took YEARS to learn to shed the resulting guilt. He raised me, training me every day to be his little helper monkey...takes a long time to shed those instincts and realize that even your parents don't have that kind of call on your loyalties. Becacuse there are no limits, he's never getting better, and he won't even realize he's killing me. And if I let him destroy me, I'll never be there to help anyone else.

Which is all vague and probably unhelpful, so I'm going to try some specifics. Places where I draw the line, although you have to draw it where it's best for you. I've come to learn that's different for everyone. I've walked away from my Dad for years at a time because I couldn't let his psychosis run my life. But I'm just not strong enough to do it forever. To be who I am, I had to find a compromise. I drew my personal line at my professional life and my relationship with my fiance or other family members. An example...oh, despite his well practiced guilt trips, I won't stretch vacations where I see him at the expense of seeing my mom or spending "us alone" time with my fiance. I won't interupt my professional life to come deal with his crisis. I will (and did) wire money to cover his phone bill (much more important that his paycheck went to pay his and current wife's bar tab)...but only if it's not money I was planning an immediate use for. And I WILL call it a loan, even though I don't kid myself I'll ever see it again. I will talk on the phone with him now, until I start stressing so much I have trouble sleeping. Then I cut him off until the next time I feel strong enough. But it's my choice, not his. And if all hell breaks loose while I'm on a phone-vacation....it's on his head. I left because I had to, he created both the situation that drove me away and the situation that's hurting him while I'm gone. I'm not responsible for either one.

As far as your example...if I'm honest, I'd have done pretty much exactly what you did. Given extra from my own store of energy in order to give my beloved what he deserved while still doing the minimum I could for my parent and still look at myself in the mirror. I'd have gone, cleaned him up, emptied the house of dangerous swallowables and left him to sober up on his own....then made the world spin backwards to finish the cake. But while I fully admit, I'd have done what you did....I try to minimize the number of times I try to make up the difference between what I want to give to my father and what the rest of my life deserves from my own stock of energy. Self sacrifice comes too naturally to me; and if, as I've always suspected, that tendency to nail myself to a cross for other people's convenience comes from life with Dad...you may have it too. I have to be very wary of my instinct to just peddle faster to make it up to everyone. My fiance understands that sometimes I just have to deal with my crazy family, he lets me know when I'm doing too much of it and forgives me either way. He'd have loved the cake, told me how much it meant to him, and to not be such a damned fool next time...he can have cake a day or two late. I give it even oddds whether I'd have listened to that last part.

But more than any of the above, I'm just so sorry you had to deal with that...they're supposed to be taking care of US damnit. And I'm sorry there's never going to be an easy answer. (((Lou))), may you have a long break between storms.

G