Advice about advice!
 

OK, so as someone who often finds herself being asked for advice, I'm quite familiar with people asking for it, then ignoring it, then getting upset when the shit hits the fan.

At that point, I usually just walk away and say, 'well I warned you not to come crying to me....'. Normally people's pride and better judgement usually means that they go cry on someone else's shoulder, which is fine by me, and understandable, as no-one likes to hear 'I told you so'.

However....what if that someone is someone who's very close to you? So close, that in fact, you know that if they don't follow your advice, their problem will soon become your problem?

I'm currently in this position with a family member.....as much as I've tried to explain to her the dangers of her actions, she continues down the same path of destruction, and I am the one who has to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong, which it inevitably does. Since she is a family member, her pain is my pain and though I try to remain emotionally detached there are times when her problems encroach and affect my life. (The last time this happened, for example, was the day before FussyPucker's 30th Birthday, when, amongst other things I was supposed to be making him a cake. He did get his cake, in the end, as I stayed up late and rose at dawn to finish it, determined not to let him down as it was important to me that he knew he was not playing second fiddle to my family member's self inflicted problems.)

So I give her sound advice (I know it's sound, because it's exactly the advice she'd give me, if roles were reversed) in the hopes that she'll take it, so that I don't have to be on 'suicide watch' when it all goes to shit. I've even tried telling her, "Well this is my advice, if you don't take it, then I'm not going to help you when it all comes crashing down about your ears" but she doesn't take the advice and she still comes to me with her problems, or someone else will ring me up with the 'I thought you ought to know....' speech and it lands itself right back on my doorstep.

I can't see an end to this as it is a cycle that has perpetuated for many years already. I have a responsibility to Fussy and to my future children to make sure that her issues do not overshadow their needs, as she seems to have no concept of how the way she behaves in the family impacts on others in it. The only thing I can think to do, is to stop wasting my energy on the advice and be supportive and encouraging whatever she says she's going to do (it creates arguments and tension when I try to warn her off certain paths of action 'for her own good') and then be sympathetic when it goes wrong. This goes against my conscience, but since my advice is never heeded, perhaps I'd gain some relief from no longer trying. Whatever action I take, it won't stop her from calling me in floods of tears telling me she's suicidal, something which I've accepted as part of who she is.

So what would you do? Give up trying to be helpful, in the comfort that the less energy you expend on her, the less frustrated you'll be, or continue to try to 'do the right thing' by her knowing that when she ignores the advice at least you know you tried and that your conscience is clear?

i'd still give the advice. not so much for a clear conscience but 'cause i have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. (i have a sister much like your family member). i never say i told you so and i don't put conditions on my advice but i do find myself saying 'this is your bed...you made it. now, you can sleep in it'. i have no problem being unsympathetic when sympathy is not deserved. i also tend to not let her shit bring me down or suck me in. it frustrates her for sure because she believes the world...and i, for that matter, revolve around her. she's done quite a bit of sticking her nose in my business and has even gone so far as to insinuate...ah hell, who am i kidding? she didn't insinuate anything....she came right out and said it...said things that are untrue and hurtful and even hateful to my husband, trying to drive a wedge between us. it won't ever work but she doesn't get...selfish people never do. quintessential sister move here--when she once told me...in a slurred and snotty voice... that she loved my kids more than she loved me and i replied that i definitely loved my kids more than i loved her she was shocked and actually hurt...didn't speak to me for the rest of the night. i love her, she is my baby sister, but sometimes i don't like her very much. i don't like to see her hurt so i try to help when i can but i can't let her stubbornness, stupidity and selfishness ruin my life.

how the hell did i turn that around to be about me? i'm so sorry, lou.

you need to decide how far you'd go to help, and how much you're willing to give up and sacrifice to help. personally....i draw the line at sacrificing my marriage or my family. sometimes, the hardest thing to is to walk away, especially when you feel the strong ties of blood and responsibility. but it's also true that, in the end, she is responsible for herself and must learn to navigate life on her own just as you are and do.

family has it’s own set of twisted problems made just that much more complicated by love and blood but it doesn’t make you a bad person just because you are tired of getting dragged down and sucked in.

i was absolutely no help(((((hugs))))

The only advice I can offer is tough love. It's said you have to be cruel to be kind and some people will use you up without stopping to even consider the emotional drain they're causing. I know it's not easy to just say "I'm not helping anymore." but sometimes it's the only thing that will make them take a good long look at their actions... unfortunately for some even that won't do it. Wish I could offer some magical charm for the problem but I've definitely been there (((((((Lou))))) I wish you the best.

It's easy to be an enabler when you are emotionally involved. When you say don't cry to me then you let them, it's enabling. It's also called loving someone. The lines get so blurry and the cycle never ends. I think the thing to remember is that some people thrive on being the star of drama. They are most in their glory when their applecart is upset and they are scurrying after the apples. "I told you so" is helpful to no one and some may see it as self-righteous, so I avoid any of that sort of thing.

I still give the advice, I don't get wrapped up in the drama and then I help them pick up a few apples and tell them I love them still but they need to clean up the mess.

I also have a family member with some personal problems that have caused more than their fair share of ripples in the family. I've seen the toll it's taken on my parents and grandmother. I've tried to help him, as a good big brother should, only to have it come crashing back on me.

Sometimes, despite our best hopes and intentions, family member's problems are beyond our ability to do more than listen and continue to give advice. There are days I feel like a Pez dispenser of advice... but I digress! With his problems, alcohol related, he needs better help than I am able to give. While I can point him in the direction of those who can help, it requires some admission of a problem on his part (and those who are enabling him) for him to tak that next step. Perhaps, in a similar sense, your sister would benefit from some more professional help?

I wish you luck with your sister and hope that some of this may be of use to you.

Ok i haven't read the above posts ( too long) so if this is a repeat, spank me and ignore it.

I have a problem with not giving advice, as some of you may or may not have noticed. I just pretty much think I know everything about everything and want to impart my wisdom on other people.

that being said.

You are very right to put your husband and children over your other family members. That's the way it's meant to be. My advice is tough love. Give the advice to her, then when she doesn't take it, make HER clean up her own mess. her problems are NOT your problems.

let me say that one again -
HER PROBLEMS ARE NOT YOUR PROBLEMS.

anything that she is woman enough to get her ass into she can get her ass out of.

Tanks for the advice everyone.....I agree, it's important not to take responsibility for her problems, and I don't think I do...I never interfere and try to solve the problems for her, but she herself, becomes my problem, if that makes sense. Also, I've finally got through to her that she needs counselling and she's started seeing one...the first bit of my advice she's ever taken!

To return to the example of the day I should have been making Fussy's Birthday cake....that day I get a phonecall from her next door neighbour, saying she'd been in contact with her ex (a man who is no good for her whatsoever) and he'd let her down again....she rarely drinks, but had decided to drown her sorrows with a few glasses of brandy, first thing in the morning and she ended up in bed, throwing up and losing control of her bladder a little each time she puked. Her neighbour thought it wouldn't be a good idea to leave her on her own, but she was about to go away for the weekend.

In this situation, how, realistically, could I have said to the neighbour, 'I told her not to make contact with him, it's her bed she'll have to lie in it'? Her physical being was in danger, as I saw it, as I didn't know how much she had drunk and what state she was in until I got there. When I arrived she told me she'd not taken any pills because she didn't think she'd got enough left to finish herself off.....I stayed a few hours, but once I'd seen that she'd had a bath and got out of bed, I told her I had to go. We'd reached the point of arguing because I wasn't letting her wallow in self pity.

Oh and Nazgul1954, just for the record, I never said it was my sister....I imagine it would be easier to deal with if it were....it's a little bit different when the person is your Mother though....

Lou, I feel your pain.

I had an ex-boyfriend who only cared about himself yet I helped him out time and time again. I realized I was being an enabler and stopped dealing with him. I missed him/felt terrible but it was truly better that I did it that way.

Lou, I feel your pain.

I had an ex-boyfriend who only cared about himself yet I helped him out time and time again. I realized I was being an enabler and stopped dealing with him. I missed him/felt terrible but it was truly better that I did it that way.

My mom? Jesus . . . I just can't talk to her much. It's too much trouble. She's an adult . . . I just can't give up my life for her "issues". I might be selfish but I like living my own life and making my own mistakes.

My apologies, Ms. Loulabelle... I guess I didn't scroll down far enough and misread part Wyndhy's post as your own. :o

I'm glad things are working out for your mom and you are right - it would be tougher to deal with a parent than a sibling.

Gosh Lou, I don't have much useful advice other than to say I was in a situation with both my parents (they are still married) ... they went through an abusive stint where my father was the face of terror. While I knew what he was doing to my Mom was wrong, I couldn't stop loving him or give the appearance of choosing my Mom over my Dad. I removed myself the best I could - let them both know that it was their problem and I refused to be a part of it. My Mom finally sought help from a counselor and support groups - eventually my Dad joined her in the quest to make their marriage and themselves better, it helped them - but even through that, when my Mom needed a ride (she doesn't drive) I wouldn't take her - told her that she needed to learn independence from her family - to have the ability to take care of herself, rather than lean on us for everything. I often felt cold and heartless - but I really think it was better for my emotional sanity to hold tough and walk away during that time in their life. I guess in a nutshell, it's the tough love others have mentioned...

(((Lou))) I hope you find peace with your situation.

Well what to say here. Well my older sister has always been jealous of me and acted out towards my parents by stealing money from them. The money was spare change that was for the newspaper milk etc. This was when she was only 12 and I was 8.

She ended up moving out coz she didn't like the way my parents told her that stealing was wrong. They didn't hit her or anything, they did what every parent does. They tried to work it out. I knew that she was stealing and she told me not to tell them. Now of course when there is only 2 kids in the house and they ask me if I was stealing the money and I say no, then it just a simple process of elimination. So they went after her and asked her again, which she of course lied about saying stuff like "it's not my fault you left the money out and can't remember where you left it." Also "well what do you expect to happen if you leave money just lying around?"

My parents tried to explain to her that stealing and lying are not good traits to have. My sister took it all the wrong way and moved out.

My parents are also the tough love type, which is a good thing, coz it shows the person that every action has an opposite and equal reaction. If you do something good or bad then there is always an outcome. Whether you like it or not.

Now my sister at the age of 32 still thinks that I am the favourite out of me and her. She only thinks that coz when I ask my parents for help or something they try and help me. Now they do the same for her but when she mistreats the help and they tell her off and she thinks that they are telling her off for the wrong reasons. Like what happened recently, she was living in Queensland near my parents house and my parents had bought a house for my sister, her husband and 6 kids. She couldn't keep the place clean and when my parents had enough of her and she moved out, they had to have the carpets replaced, the walls repainted and the landscaping done.

Then they had to put the house on the market to get there money back from fixing it up. Now my parents have washed their hands with her, and won't ever help her like that again. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Oh sorry lou I got a bit off track here. I think we all have a problem family member, the only advice I can give is what has already been given. But perhaps your mother should be seeing a counsellor or a shrink to help her through this. There is only so much you can do. The rest is up to her and if she really wants to make herself better then she will go see a shrink.

She had one session with a life coach (who happens to be a friend of mine) which she said helped her a lot, but she's met this man whom she believes she's in love with (despite having known him only a very short time) and she hasn't seen the counsellor since.

This is the defining problem my mother has....she doesn't think she exists unless there is a man in her life, and she rather be with anyone than no-one.

In the meantime, my sister and I get treated like crap while it's all going well with the man, and then expected to 'be there for her' when it all goes wrong.

Her behaviour is losing her friends at the moment, and I don't blame them for not wanting anything to do with her......I wouldn't want anything to do with her if she weren't my mother, since she's so incredibly self obsessed.

This sounds alot like my girlfriends mother. She isn't in your mums situation, but she does treat my girlfriend like crap when she is not around her boyfriend.

M=Mum, D=Daughter

Here's the funny thing, when M is over seeing D and M has her b/f there as well, she puts on an act and treats D nice. But when M is there on her own seeing D she treats her like crap, and tries to rule her life.

I of course tell my g/f just to ignore her mum when she get's like this and not add fuel to the fire. Coz then her mum tells her to move out. Even though her mum is living with her b/f, my g/f is living at her mums place so at least she has somewhere to live.

Her mum is also a control freak. For example her mum has got the home phone on selective dialing. So my g/f can only ring certain number's. Then her mum tells her to find work. Now question, how is she suppose to find work when she can't ring up jobs that are advertised in the paper?

Yeah I know what you are thinking.....WTF?

Lou, that is quite a difficult situation and I sympathize. My best friend in high school was bulimic and so the advice dynamic was very similar. I know that it must be frustrating to constantly repeat the advice, but I feel that it's just something that as a sister and a friend, you just have to keep doing. You said it yourself that it was the same advice she would give you. Perhaps deep down or subconsciously she knows that it is right, but might not be in strong point in her life to admit it to herself much less out loud to you. If your sister is anything like mine, if she really didn't believe in the advice and didn't want to hear it, she wouldn't keep coming back to you and setting herself up to hear your advice again and again. I wish you the best difficult situation and hope that your sister will one day see the light so to speak. I hope this was helpful.