Hmm....how about taking a little responsibility for your actions.....what you said is a typical addict's response, and no more valid than saying:

'It's my wife's nagging that drives me to the bottle of whisky'


I went to a diet class last year (because I'm a food addict) and had to eat low fat food the whole time I was there and when I stopped going to the class because the teacher quit to have a baby, I went on a binge and put on loads of weight again. The weight I've gained increases my risk of heart disease, dvt, cancer, asthma, digestive problems, and if I continue at this weight, I have undoubtedly shortened my life. So does that mean the diet class is responisble for my early demise? Of course it doesn't! Me filling my face with the wrong foods and not exercising is responsible, and I'd be a pathetic waste of space if I said otherwise.

you mean like not breathing?

ok i will open up this topic in 2 areas and this is my opinion and not meant to affend anyone, firstly i am an ex smoker who smoked for more than 25 years and belive that they have gone a little over the top with banning smoking in some areas like they were talking about banning people from smoking in cars here when there was kids in the car (another dumb arse do gooders bright idead) i personely cant not stand the smell of the dam things and i pisses me off when you have a no smoking area like a resterant and you have all the smokers standing in the door way and i have to walk through that to get in or out when they could at least walk 20 30 feet away. (i not saying all smokers are like that) the second thing is you may pay more tax but you suffer more medical problems from smoking so it would br fair to say you get a good part of that tax back

Thank you Loulabelle, for touching upon that point the way you did. People driving down the road flicking their butts out the window piss me off royally!

Now before Lixy drives up here to beat me to death with a liberal dose of righteous indignation...remember this:

That's an example of an inconsiderate asshole smoker. Being a smoker is not what makes them an inconsiderate asshole. The cigarette butt is but a tool in their hands. That's an asshole doing something inconsiderate. To apply that behaviour to all smokers is akin to saying that all soda drinkers toss their cans out the car window. Aqua drinks Mountain Dew, right? He's the last person in the world I'd expect to see whipping empties out the window of his Scooby Doo. There are inconsiderate people doing disrespectful and discourteous things to others all day every day...smoking and non-smoking. What I was getting at (obviously not well, or you would've gotten my point) was that I'm respectful of those around me, and I expect that same courtesy. Be it from a smoker who's blowing smoke at my table, frat boys bragging about their sexual conquests within earshot of my children, stupid parents who do nothing while their bratty kids running amok, or the CEO yelling into his cell phone.

Like I said in my original post...if there was a way we could all coexist, I'm there. If I walk into a restaurant that has a smoking area, I'll request they seat us away from it. If I have to walk past a smoking table, I don't wrinkle my nose in disgust from the smell. I'm a grown man, for crying out loud! I follow the waiter/tress to my table and sit down & eat. If I'm right next to a smoking area, I ask to be moved. It's my right. Notice how I'm saying "I ask to be moved." not "I ask they be moved.". That's not my right.

I'm sorry you took offense to my statements, Lixy. I indicated it was a matter of being courteous. If you are...then I'm not talking to you.

I believe you are correct ‘MATE’, that the pendulum swings a bit far to the right sometime. ;) As for looking only at the $$ involved with treating medial issues, you could consider that smokers will be canceled out of the equation much earlier and may well consume less costs in the declining years than the nonproductive arses of the nonsmokers.


Your attitude is something that would be welcome by most smokers, WildIrish, and is one that would perhaps allow us to deal with a matter we are much less pleased about ourselves.
I’m pretty sure that the “liberal doses of righteous indignation” are seen to come TO the smoker rather than FROM them. This thread (and others on this topic) attest to the eagerness for the supercilious. I know that I have an innate reaction to arrogant, condescending, pompous, patronizing assholes that I’m working on dealing with in a better manner, but I do think the natural progression is for a target to first become defensive and then aggressive when threatened. It’s a natural human trait to elevate ourselves by promoting the transgressions of others, but I can tell you that the perception of persecution triggers a defensive reaction rather than one of cooperation.

/me likes fucking

Those that know me understand that I'm all about sharing this world with others, and that the only way that's going to work is if we all respect each other.

We can agree on a global topic like homelessness and disagree on what to do about it while still being respectul of each other, can't we? Well, actually in the real world, no...we can't, and it saddens me. If we could, we'd have the problem damn near solved. :(

As it should be too!

...i never smoked in the car when my kids were in it..........they had to be in the car...i put em there but i have no right put them in harms way or subject them to my filthy habit

I stinks....it makes me car sick and i was a smoker....i dread to think what it smells and feels like to a person thats never smoked...

Second hand smoke IS dangerous

I hate to dwell on the original point of the thread, but it was ... smoking bans are harmful to the health of smokers - the inability to smoke freely wherever and whenever makes smokers into chain smokers.

Last time I tried to get back to this point, Lixy added her thoughts about how she smokes during her three breaks in her workday - a cigarette in 5 minutes (2 during 10 minute breaks, and 3 during the 15 minute). All that adds up to 7 during her workday which seems to be quite long as of late. wanderingsoul made the point that since he was subjected to the ban at OSU, now that he is out of the environment he continues to chain smoke. If this were in fact the case, one could surmize (maybe not accurately) that during Lixy's non-working hours she's smoking 12 cigarettes an hour. If that is in fact the case, we need to desperately re-consider these bans and the impact they are having on the health of smokers.

Again, in my naive little world, I believe this isn't the case for all smokers. Can we all agree (maybe?) that the smoking bans that are in place are causing an improved environment for ALL people? I feel like I'm stretching to get agreement in this thread, but I thought I'd give it a try.

/me peeks under your blouse while you stretch. :D

WildIrish, I thought I was the only one who gets bugged by that!!!!!! So glad to find I'm not alone. :D

Moose, I have to agree with Alasse, I don't see that a parent has the right to put their child's health in danger. As a child I developed asthma when my step father (a smoker) moved into our house. It magically went away again after leaving University (where I lived with lots of smokers) and moving into my own house.

Maddy, amen sister, you've definitely got agreement from me. You're absolutely right.

Geezzzzzz......I've NEVER been that slovenly! First off...I NEVER discard anything that isn't biodegradable! Sure, I'll toss an apple core into the woods as I drive down the street or something of that nature. But I never toss anything that I know won't biodegrade!

I don't know who your friends are but ewwwwwwwww! I've never met anyone like those you say would put a cig butt in your flower bed! I've had humongous parties here and on clean-up had to pick up maybe 5 cig. butts...total! I'm betting those were the friends that ended up passing out on the lawn...lol! But then, my friends know me and know that I am environmentally friendly...and seek out the recycling bins and ashtrays when they visit...cause I provide them for them!!!!

I will never advocate disposing of a cigarette butt! Matter of fact, where I work there is a private club across the street and they use our parking lot after hours for their overflow parking. Every morning, like clockwork, I go around picking up the butts on the ground from the patronage the night before. If I left them there, no one else would ever pick them up but just complain when our smoking privledges are taken away. I know it's from the patrons of the club and not our employees because "I AM THE KEEPER OF THE BUTT CAN"! If I spy an inflection in keeping the grounds where we break clean...I'll call them on it. Once, a new guy at the job came back from break after I had gone in. Someone came and told me he put a lit butt in the butt can. LMAO at the tattletale, I knew it would have to be my responsibility to set the newbie straight. I went to his work area, introduced myself, shook his hand and asked him to please follow me. I explained as we walked that if he put lit butts in the butt can provided that it would catch fire and our smoking privledges would be under scrutiny. We walked to the sink, got a pitcher of water, and started to the door. I told him it was either this or he'd have to piss in the tiny hole to which he put his butt in. He laughed, appologized and put the lit cig. out!

If I am arriving at a store, of which I can still smoke outside as I near the establishment as far as I know, I check to see if they have a place to put out cigs. Most do but some don't and I'll never understand that! We don't smoke in the store...duh! Don't they think that of everyone who comes to their store there just might be a few smokers who will outen (<---Pa. Dutch slang) their butts in front of the store? Provide a place to dispose of the butts for crying out loud!

If smoking is banned inside establishments...or even in homes and private clubs, etc....but we still have the right to smoke outside...how's about giving us a place to outen our butts?

Or...would you all just prefer that we move to our own island?


Geezzzzzzz...I hate being stereotyped!

I'm not suggesting the island as a solution, but it could have it's advantages, don't you think? Enough so that I might consider pretending to smoke :)

:x: In my saner moments...when I don't feel like I have to be on the defensive for all I know who are smokers and like me...I know that! I do know that about you babe!

To all reading all my posts here...this is a REALLY REALLY touchy subject that I hate even having to try and defend! I sat here yesterday trying to put myself in the quitter/non-smoker's shoes. I tried to think from your side of the fence. I get it...I swear I do...SMOKING IS DISGUSTING AND YOU ALL HATE IT! Ever try to put yourself in my shoes? Ever wonder why such a strong person like Lixy (I'm hoping you all might think I have some inner strength) won't quit?

I won't go into that banter again...I'll just reiterate that we (smoker's) have been dumped on from every angle and it's really starting to piss us off. If you push someone long enough to bend to your will and they are resistant but give till the fairness runs out...are we sure there won't be some kind of revolt?

The cigarette comapanies have admitted to making us all the more addicted with additives. Can't some of you brainiacks (word?...and someone check that spelling before I admit into the Lixtionary...lol!) figure out a way to undo what the cig companies have done to us???? My friends daughter is a biochemist and I've begged her for a cure! She giggles at me because she understands the addiction even though she doesn't smoke. She knows what the cigarette comapanies have done. She chides me and says shes working on it. Gotta love her! Who knows...she is smarter than smart itself and she might be serious...but who can tell fore when she talks I just look at her like a deer in the headlights trying to follow her conversations on chemicals and their interaction with the body when introduced by outside blah, blah, blah and such...lmfao!

Yes Loulabelle...I blame the cigarette companies! If the warning labels back when I started smoking had said, "We want you to smoke and you'll love it for a while but soon you'll be addicted and it'll be the worst addiction you'll ever have in your life...this is our promise because we are fucking with the additives to make sure we will keep that promise to you"...I'd have never started! That's why I never tried heroin. I saw the warnings and the awful addiction in my brother and I never dabbled, even once, cause I KNEW I would get addicted to it and end up like him. Cigarettes grab you slower...and nearly never let you go! Why would I chose this if I knew? It's not a disgusting habit. Yes, it's disgusting...but it's an addiction...NOT A HABIT! Biting my nails was a habit!

Oh Gawd...this is exhausting and I need a cig!

Lixy OUT!

*giggle*

I'm askeered of hurricanes!

Maddy, I'm sorry for making you think that I don't understand your point[s]. I promise I do take heed to all words spoken on this subject.

I really hate having to try and defend smokers. I just feel that there will always be this controversy and I am on the shittiest end of this particular stick and I can't go down without trying to make others see it from my side too!

Make sense?

Oh, I see your point... I learned long ago that I won't force a smoker to give up their cigarettes so long as they don't make me give up carbs and chocolate. I just ask that people not do it in my immediate presence and are considerate in public - which you clearly have stated you are. I have plenty of friends that choose to smoke. I choose them as my friends. I don't mind them smoking in my presence and of course would prefer they didn't have the habit/addiction but that's their's to own, not mine.

I would never claim to have been on the forefront of the bans that are in place, but I don't complain about them being in place either.

Here's the above post as seen through 'Aqua Vision'...

Geezzzzzz......I've NEVER been that slovenly! First off...I NEVER discard anything that isn't biodegradable! Sure, I'll toss an apple core into the woods as I drive down the street or something of that nature. But I never toss anything that I know won't biodegrade!

I don't know who your friends are but ewwwwwwwww! I've never met anyone like those you say would put a cig butt in your flower bed! I've had humongous parties here and on clean-up had to pick up maybe 5 cig. butts...total! I'm betting those were the friends that ended up passing out on the lawn...lol! But then, my friends know me and know that I am environmentally friendly...and seek out the recycling bins and ashtrays when they visit...cause I provide them for them!!!!

I will never advocate disposing of a cigarette butt! Matter of fact, where I work there is a private club across the street and they use our parking lot after hours for their overflow parking. Every morning, like clockwork, I go around picking up the butts on the ground from the patronage the night before. If I left them there, no one else would ever pick them up but just complain when our smoking privledges are taken away. I know it's from the patrons of the club and not our employees because "I AM THE KEEPER OF THE BUTT CAN"! If I spy an inflection in keeping the grounds where we break clean...I'll call them on it. Once, a new guy at the job came back from break after I had gone in. Someone came and told me he put a lit butt in the butt can. LMAO at the tattletale, I knew it would have to be my responsibility to set the newbie straight. I went to his work area, introduced myself, shook his hand and asked him to please follow me. I explained as we walked that if he put lit butts in the butt can provided that it would catch fire and our smoking privledges would be under scrutiny. We walked to the sink, got a pitcher of water, and started to the door. I told him it was either this or he'd have to piss in the tiny hole to which he put his butt in. He laughed, appologized and put the lit cig. out!

If I am arriving at a store, of which I can still smoke outside as I near the establishment as far as I know, I check to see if they have a place to put out cigs. Most do but some don't and I'll never understand that! We don't smoke in the store...duh! Don't they think that of everyone who comes to their store there just might be a few smokers who will outen (<---Pa. Dutch slang) their butts in front of the store? Provide a place to dispose of the butts for crying out loud!

If smoking is banned inside establishments...or even in homes and private clubs, etc....but we still have the right to smoke outside...how's about giving us a place to outen our butts?

Or...would you all just prefer that we move to our own island?


Geezzzzzzz...I hate being stereotyped!

The other day my son and i were eating our lunch along with quite a few others in a non smoking area outside the doors of the shopping centre...a smoker came and stood right under the sign and smoked his cigarette...his smoke blowing over all trying to eat...then when he finished he flicked his damn butt onto the ground and walked off.....about 10 meters away was a smoking section complete with ashtrays
(It is not permitted to smoke within 10 meters of the centres main doors...because without a word of a lie...it was like walking through a damn smoke haze to get into the place...so the Centre was trying to keep ALL happy)

By the amount of butts i see walking into the center...not many use the ashtrays provided...nor care much about the non smoking areas

Just do away with the damned things and everything will be so much better.

well once again, I am apart from the ordinary. I am the most earth friendly person I've ever met and I happen to be a smoker as well. I was more disgusted than any other time in my life when I visited OSU campus.

Not only do they have the balls to outlaw smoking everywhere but there's only an ashtray like every 3 blocks!!! Not seriously but all of the smokers I talked to were as disgusted as I am by the lack of cigarette butt recepticles. It's not a choice there, what are we supposed to do stick them in our pockets and throw them away when you get home making your door smell like cigarettes anyway!?!?!

Us smokers have been giving and paying out the ass, all I'm asking is for nonsmokers to be willing to give a little as well.

That makes me wonder Laz... would it be easier to quit if I knew that there were no more cigs to be had? Probably...

They should have more so that you can make their door smell like cigarettes then??

Lixy, I'm glad to hear that you feel that way about cig butts, although I'd say you are the exception rather than the rule. Perhaps the views on cig butts are generally different in your neck of the woods, but in my 'nation of slobs' it seems I'm the only one who actually frowns on it! My next door neighbours are a prime example....their house is always immaculate (much cleaner and tidier than mine) but we share a drain (although it's on my property) and it's always full of cig butts.

I'd like it to be known, just for the record, that I own several ash trays, and that, in fact, when people who are smokers come to my house (which is fairly rare as a lot of my friends are non-smokers these days) I am quite happy for them to smoke inside - mainly because it disrupts the evening if my guest has to keep running to my front door to smoke every few minutes, and there's also a good chance they'd end up letting my kittens escape into the night (they aren't allowed out after dark).

A number of my friends have recently taken up smoking again after years of being non-smokers. I worry for their health and Fussy and I have both noticed that their smoking has a detrimental effect on our social group (there's always a little clique of them outside at a party not socialising with the rest of us, so I only get to spend time with them if I'm willing to freeze my butt off on the door step) but I don't look down on them, or think less of them than I used to. Hell, I daredn't even tell them not to throw cig butts in my flower bed for fear of them feeling unwelcome in my home.

As WildIrish says, it's a case of being polite and being a polite non-smoker is just as important as being a polite smoker.

We would do what is called "field stripping" the cigs and put the butts in our pockets/purse/baggie to throw away later... no ashes, no tobacco etc in pockets, just the butts..