EXACTLY maddy! ^5!

And another thing...why is smoking in a establishment a "mandatory ban"? Why doesn't the owner of the establishment have the right to chose whether he/she bans it, in relative proportion to those who frequent it. If they have a higher number of non-smoker's...ban smoking! If they have a higher number of smoker's, post at the door that it is a smoking establishment with a non-smoking section!

Who died and made non-smoker's/quitter's a superior being???????????? Maybe...I say MAYBE...you might live a healthier life, but you are no better than me in the entire scheme of things! I'm not a stupid person and I know what the risks are...but you aren't a "god" and I don't see how your rules are THE rules????????? What if I told you that your disgust of me should be taxed and if you show it on your face when I am around I can ban you from my establishment!!!!!?????? How ya like me now?



^^^I can already see the comments on that statement!

*jumps off the pretty pink soap box and sends it to the painters to have a new sheen put on it*

I wonder if the sin tax would be offset by not having to pay the medical bills of indigent smokers?

Non smokers are not superior, it is the law in many places to ban smoking in public facilities because it is a known public health risk. It is easier for smokers to go outside to smoke than non-smokers to step outside to breathe. I have no problem with smokers. I know the addiction well. It's the age old story of your rights end where mine begin.

I found these Wikapedia links to have a lot of information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking

Ok well the point that I'm trying to make is that cig smoke to non smokers is annoying and inconvient in many ways. BUT, doing everything in the world to make non-smokers happy is much more than annoying and inconvient, it's straight up killing us smokers.

I don't like anything about the act of smoking, not many smokers do. However I am addicted and depend on cigs since current laws don't allow me to light a joint whenever I get stressed out. I also know how unhealthy smoking is and try to limit it as much as possible. I have to at $25-30 a carton!

I know that there are plenty arguments against smoking but there's two sides to every argument. True it would cost money to eliminate the second hand smoke and true it's not fair to make non-smokers pay for that. One possible solution is to charge an extra fee to sit in the smoking section.

As far as eliminating the second hand smoke completely, I've been thinking of designing a personal size version of something like this just so I can smoke at my dads house. Design a holder for the lit end of a cig, have two small tubes, one to each side. One brings new air in to keep the cig burning, one takes the the smoke out, either through filtration or straight outside. I know I haven't figured out everything as far as how to dispose of ashes and butts so that the smell from them doesn't leech out.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's a much better solution to the smoking problem rather than just banning it damn near everywhere. Us smoker's are used to paying an arm and a leg both in money and sacrifices for the freedom to smoke. No smoking areas create chain smokers, chain smoking kills a helluva lot quicker than regular, making nonsmokers comfortable is no reason to kill us smokers.

But that's just it Lil...we got addicted and now we are shunned and taken advantage of by taxes that don't apply to anyone other than us.

Why can't an owner of a place say..."Hey! I'm catering to my smoking paying peeps. I didn't vote to have a law against it...did I?" Owners are finding that a "hidden agenda" of elected and non-elected lawmaker's is this ban. Someone coulda told entrepreneurs that this was part of a platform or that by electing so-and-so they would have a trickle down effect by those they appointed who will make this ban a law all over. Government has stuck it's nose in far too many places it has no right to!

The law should be...(IMHO)...if you want a non-smoking place without fearing a lawsuit of prejudice...you have to post that your establishment is a non-smoking one. If you want a smoking place...POST IT and let those who "CHOOSE" not to smoke go elsewhere! How is it easier for me to leave to smoke than it is for you to NOT choose to come in if there is smoking? To make an across the board rule in favor of one side isn't fair to me...never will be! Given a choice...if I saw a sign that said "Non-Smoking Establishment"...I could go in, eat and leave to smoke. Or I could choose not to eat there. Same goes for you!

Why make it like we are leppers? And then have the balls to tax us for what is found offensive????? Isn't that like taking "dirty money"? What hypocracy!!!!

As to the medical part of it...health problems come in many forms from many causes and to blame cigs as the sole reason for high health care is just not fair or acurate!

Let me start by saying I'm personally naive to the addiction ... tried it, didn't like it, it's never been a problem for me. I don't shun friends and co-workers who choose to smoke, I only ask that they not do it in my car or home. I'll go to the bar and sit next to them and wave my hand in their face if their cigarette is blowing right in mine. That being said - I know I'm putting myself at risk by breathing in the air, just as I'm at risk for eating those darn McD's fries.

Back to the original point at hand which claims that smoking bans are dangerous to smokers becuase it causes chain smoking. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding this point. No one is forcing you to smoke any more or less than you would if there weren't a smoking ban, just restricting where you can do so.

I also believe that quitting is an option - again this is my naive, never addicted opinion. I've seen people quit so I have to believe it's a possibility.

If my face offends you, I'll gladly step outside.

If my words offend you, I'll talk elsewhere.

I don't want to be the one that diminishes a dining experience for you and your loved ones. And I expect the same courtesy from those around me. Problem is...we can't have it both ways. It's impossible to eliminate smoke. It's cheaper and more effective to not allow it. If the technology enabled us to copatronize, I wouldn't have a problem with a dining facility that accomodated both.

I only pulled this one quote from your reply because I agree with everything else you said prior to it.

And...YES! I agree we have the option to quit...and I have on many occasions! If I NEVER smoked, it'd be easier to see your side of things. So, as a smoker, let me enlighten you to my plight.

I swear maddy...I understand your naivety. I am naive to the addiction of heroin. Never tried it, can't understand the attraction, would NEVER try it. Though, I know heroin users who have given up heroin and CAN'T give up cigs. They say it's the worst addiction they have ever known, above and far beyond smoking cigs! I thought...peshaw <sp?>...Heroin is pretty bad shit! But I see it with my own eyes..smoking cigs is the badder of the shit!

OK...that said... If I could get an hemi-lobotomy to make me FORGET that I ever smoked or (at one time) ever liked it...I'd be first in line! Use me as a guinea pig...I don't care...I HATE SMOKING that much! I'd go where no one has gone before if they thought I could stop and never want to start again!

Ask everyone that you know who has quit maddy...ask them to be honest and tell you if there aren't times when they want to smoke again...do they miss it from time to time...do they get the urge under pressure...and so on. I've known peeps who have quit 30+ years and STILL have the notion to start again!

I DO NOT WANT THAT URGE ANYMORE! I just don't like dwelling on past experiences unless they are good ones! That's why I quit quitting. It's all I can think about when I quit. I see cig smoke in my dreams. When I am awake, I see more people smoking than I ever knew smoked. It's almost like they are taunting me with it! I went to several hypnotists and that didn't work. I tried the patch and as soon as I was done my last step, I went back. I went into the woods for 7 straight days without a pack and as soon as I got out I lit up. It's all I think about!

As to being restricted...I do think I smoke more when I am aware that I'll be restricted when I get to my destination. At work...I have 2-10 minute breaks and a 15 minute lunch (chosen...to get out 15 minutes earlier). I smoke 2 cigs on my 10 min. breaks and 3 on my 15...so there is some truth to wanderingsoul's proclaimation!

I hear there will be a pill in the near future that'll not only help us quit but lose weight in the process (a big concern for quitter's). I hope it's all they are cracking it up to be...because I have no hope otherwise!

You are a very sweet, sincere and all around nice person WI. No one has ever disputed that here, that I know of.

I am highly insulted that you insinuate that I "wish to diminish a dining experience" because I smoke. As far as I know, all smokers make a choice to dine in an all non-smoking establishment...by hook or by crook...and we abide by that rule, no questions asked! On the flip side...non-smokers make a conscience decision to dine/drink at a smoking establishment and have no right to complain when they are seated! In order to get to the "non-smoking" section...whoever (in his/her great wisdom) has put the non-smoking section to the rear of said establishment! When one walks into a place and sees/smells/nearly pukes from the smoking going on...you have a choice to leave or be seated!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't smoke to offend anyone but myself...which, BTW, it does offend me more times than not lately! I consider myself to be the most polite smoker on this planet. I KNOW IT IS YUCKY...I KNOW...I KNOW!!!!!!!

If an establishment has a no smoking rule...I don't light up...I find a place to light up...just not there! If I am smoking in a place that allows it...I am soooooooooooooooooooo considerate of those not smoking or those I know are non-smoker's!!!!!

I realize some of us can be offensive even with the rules layed out. To them I :hair: and appologize for all of us who are trying to make a place for us instead of feeling like a leper! There are ways we can all coexist ya know. Don't back us into corner's like rats and we won't jump at your throat!

Car crashes kill more people than cigarettes, so do we ban cars and yes it can be the falt of the other driver and not yours. I quit smoking over three yrs ago and I still get the urge at times. WI why not a smokers only establishment, that way no non-smoker will have to put up with the smoke. But no that is discrimination. I just think the smoker is unjustly discriminated agains with laws that only give rights to non-smokes.


(damn now I really want a cigarette. Lixy I have that tight chest feeling)

(((((Scarecrow)))))

I know baby...I know!


Here...hug this tight chest *points to own breasts* and suck on them instead!

K?



:x:

Stop touching my "butt" (pardon the pun!)

I think he mentions that same thing in his post.

Am I glad there are places I can go and not be subjected to second hand smoke? yes

Do I care if there are places you can go and light up inside? nope would not bother me at all

If the people who smoked, and there are quite large numbers still, organized, and set out to lobby, I'm sure you would make more of an impact. There are plenty of politicians who still have big tobacco money in their pockets. Write a letter, start a movement.

Lixy - the one quitter I know that has never had the urge (not asked the other now non-smokers I know) is my father. He had a major surgery in the early 80's. He was a pack-a-day guy until the surgery. Post-op he was wheeled on his gurnee/bed thingee from recovery to his private room. In transition we went past a smoking lounge and the smell that wafted out was enough to make him sick to his stomach on the spot. To this day he has not touched a cigarette and has said it was a huge unexpected benefit of the surgery. I'm thankful for the side effect as well. Can't explain it really as he wasn't even thinking about quitting at the time - likely complained that he wouldn't be able to smoke for "x" days while recovering from the surgery.

To this day, he will not frequent places that have a strong smell of cigarette smoke (think of your favorite bar that serves the most excellent burger ... that type of place). If he goes into an establishment and the smell is too strong he will leave, as it still has a lingering effect of making him sick to his stomach.

Who knows, mayhaps they did a hemi-lobotomy and just never told us ;)

Oops! Maybe I'm not explaining myself! I truely don't advocate smoking! I advocate the right for fairness...but I wish no one would ever start smoking from this moment forward! If that were the case...sooner or later there would be no more smokers!

To us who are left with putting up with the shame and embarrassment of ever having started...Have we really "come a long way baby"?

Yes...there are advocates of cigarette smoking. I am in no way saying I am one of them! What I am saying is...I smoke, I hate it, I can't quit and I gave up trying till I have a sure fire way. And could you give me the courtesy that I afforded you in making a choice when we are mingling in public? I'm not an idiot and I sin no more than you do! Cast a stone and expect one back!

I think I made it clear in my post that I can however right now in my state it is not up to me, nor was it. That is where my suggestion to get organized comes from. If you don't want to get into bed with the Pro-smoking groups than perhaps a group for people who feel victimized by both tobacco and the restrictions placed on those still subjected to it's addicting effects. My point is that the anti-smoking lobbyists were able to effect change and you have the power to effect the same change. Start small, contact your state rep and tell him you feel you are being discriminated against.


Totallly off the subject or maybe not, is it discrimination to make people wear shoes, shirts in a restaurant???