That still does not change the fact that you are more concerned with a symbol than with actions.

Symbols become meaningless when everyone is using them, and it becomes worse when some of those using them use them for the wrong reasons. Do you honestly believe that starting a war with falsified intelligence, with no exit plan, and condoning torture techniques is the American way? If the majority of Americans actually believe that then I'm really not all that proud to be an American, and I'm perfectly comfortable with a candidate who is willing to remove himself from all the faux patriotism that has swept this country over the past six or seven years.

Jude30,

Respectfully, symbols become meaningful when those who concur with the symbolized propositions / beliefs / ideals use them. Consider the cross, the crescent, and turbans, which are unambiguous symbols of Christians, Muslims, and Sikhs respectively.

What can be reasonably criticized is insincerely using symbols – making an unstated claim without actually sharing the underlying beliefs.

As for “the faux patriotism that has swept this country over the past six or seven years”, are you suggesting that the faux patriotism that has been criticized for more than two hundred and twenty five years was any better or different?

__________________
Eudaimonia

I'm referring to the massive amount of flag waving with no willingness or desire of those same flag wavers to make any kind of sacrifice beyond the square inches their bumper sticker take up.

Let's just look at one of my personal pet peeves, cloth flags on vehicles. I can say with a certain degree of confidence that the very people who have these flags strapped to their cars would love for there to be an amendment banning the burning of a flag. Yet they are completely happy to drive down the highway tearing that flag to tatters. IMO you might as well wipe your ass with that flag since you're not showing it respect, you're tearing it to pieces. That's just me though since I was raised to respect the flag, and not destroy it.

Jude30,

Fair enough. I did want to ensure that the discussion was not wandering off into some fuzzy-headed “symbolism is what you make of it”. Your explanation clearly indicates not.

__________________
Eudaimonia

More Pixies political debates....will we ever learn?

*sigh*



Can we get back to having sex now?

Appears not *LOL*

And yep...like your plan there....whos for sex??

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You know I am tryin my best to be greatous to you but this really burns my ass. We apparently at different times in our lives shared an experience(not the exact experience mind you but one similar) that I personally hope nobody else ever has to experience. I expressed my feelings for you as an individual by saying I am sorry for your loss. (I had apparently hit a nerve.)

Maybe I am expecting to much from people these days. For some stupid reason I half expected a thoughtful response for something so personal...but instead you just by passed it and went for the fight again. What was I thinkin? Please, Thankyou and terms of enderment dont mean anything to people these days. God help us.


I believe what I believe...you believe what you believe. I just wanted this to be a discussion but I do feel like this is an attack.



And I for one am agreeing to disagree...all others can continue if you want.

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DAMN, YOU ARE A SEXY ONE-skipthisone

I beleive in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve, and I beleive in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days. Kevin Costner/Bull Duram

"Your body as well as mine has needs. This is juat a little foreplay to highten our desire for each other. If we play out the game of love to it's natural conclusion, you'll experience fulfillment. Give yourself up to me and I'll guide you along the path to pareadise. Together we will be like fire and ice, love and hate, life and death." Virginia Henley

WANTED: a moment when you kiss someone and eveything around you becomes hazy. And the only thing in focus is you and this person and you relize that he is the only person your suppose to kiss for the rest of your life. And for one moment you get this amazing gift. You want to laugh and you want to cry. Cause you feel so lucky that you found it and so scared it will all go away at the same time.

We did not share any experience. You did not bury your child let alone two. Actually watching your child die is completely different from ALMOST having them die, trust me on this one also, since our third spent five weeks in NICU. I almost died when I was a toddler and not once did my parents ever try to compare their experience with mine. Because they knew that that would cheapen or lessen what happened to my wife and I. I'm sorry if your son was sick, but you still can talk to him can't you? You can hold him, and tell him how you feel still, and how much you miss him when he's gone? Everything I have of my son fits in a box. One box. Even though I think about him almost everyday I rarely talk about him because I don't want to be "the guy who can't get over his kid". But when you make comments like you did about sacrifice and what I would or would not die for it pisses me off. I learned a long time ago that most people have no clue what to say in this situation, and there are times I should just smile and say thanks instead of letting loose my real feelings. That's what I should have done here.

As for whether or not this is an attack or not, I believe it was you who called me a child. If you're looking for a civil discussion, do you honestly think calling one of the participants a child is the way to go about it?

You started a political thread about an individual you know nothing about. Hell before it started you knew less than nothing about him since you believed the lies that he's a Muslim. You fell the political bait and switch of ignoring the real issues to focus on the cosmetic. I would be willing to bet that the people spreading the lies about Obama are all proud flag lapel wearing individuals. Yet because they wear the pin you're willing to ignore the lies you've been fed and focus on the image instead of the reality. I would feel much less ire towards you if you had said that you looked at his politics and disagree with him and weren't going to vote on him based on the issues, I can accept that. But when you start questioning someones integrity based solely on a tiny piece of metal attached to their lapel then I'm sorry to say but I don't really respect your political opinion.

You have just proven my point. Splitting hairs....




Similar experience= different outcome. Same life altering moment!



Again I never called you a child...but I did feel like I was being corrected by my child when ever for example the clock is 6:47 and I say it is 7:00...he always tells me no it is 6:47. That is what I meant...



I started a thread because I was frustrated about the BS that is out there. Half knowing things would be pointed out to me about the things that I believed to be right but were actually wrong. More of an educational thread than a attack on one man. The two examples I used in the thread were just the crap that has been shoved down our throats for years like some kind of bad medicine that did us more harm than good.

Now I am gracefully bowing out of this discussion. I just had to get that off my chest.

I AM DONE.

__________________
DAMN, YOU ARE A SEXY ONE-skipthisone

I beleive in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve, and I beleive in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days. Kevin Costner/Bull Duram

"Your body as well as mine has needs. This is juat a little foreplay to highten our desire for each other. If we play out the game of love to it's natural conclusion, you'll experience fulfillment. Give yourself up to me and I'll guide you along the path to pareadise. Together we will be like fire and ice, love and hate, life and death." Virginia Henley

WANTED: a moment when you kiss someone and eveything around you becomes hazy. And the only thing in focus is you and this person and you relize that he is the only person your suppose to kiss for the rest of your life. And for one moment you get this amazing gift. You want to laugh and you want to cry. Cause you feel so lucky that you found it and so scared it will all go away at the same time.

Did I hear someone say "sex"?

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

Just think...your two votes cancel each other out!

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Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another.

For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.

Complete surrender should not just come at moments in which one faces overwhelming odds, but in the calm when it seems one is personally in complete control of one's life.

This is why I don't post much anymore!Everyone has different opinions & are
unwilling to accept anothers!
While I know that two wrongs,don't make a right,It was said that the US condones torture!I am a 10% disabled VN vet.I was honorably discharged in
1965.I remember walking into a diserted VC camp.There was the body of a
diceased American Soldier there.The head was staked to the ground,so that
he couldn't turn his head!His eyelids were slit off,so that he couldn't close his
eyes!The VC, probably,really enjoyed listening to him scream when the sun came up,& shone into his eyes.I still see the horror,in his face,when I close my eyes,& that was many years ago!All I am saying is that there's a BIG difference between torture & making one uncomfortable!I'm not condoning it,
but not just the US does it! Irish
P.S.War is Hell,but sometimes necessary!Different strokes for different folks!

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

Wow! I Googled various permutations of //Barack Obama Muslim//, and I was quite impressed by the way the “news organizations” were manipulated in – and were exploiting - the smear campaign. The American democratic process has lost none of the zip and vigor it has shown in the past!

__________________
Eudaimonia

I got a crap email tonight spreading the Obama won't say the pledge or cover his heart stuff. So many people intimidated by a single man.

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The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
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