(SF)

Original Story Here

Church Says Homosexuality A Sin

ARLINGTON, Texas -- A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright.

But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

"It's a slap in the face. It's like, 'Oh, we're sorry he died, but he's gay so we can't help you,"' she said Friday.

Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there.

Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.

The church's pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men "engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing."

Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.

"We did decline to host the service -- not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle," Simons told The Associated Press. "Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it -- yes, we would have declined then. It's not that we didn't love the family."

Simons said the decision had nothing to do with the obituary. He said the church offered to pay for another site for the service, made the video and provided food for more than 100 relatives and friends.

"Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness," Simons said.

Wright called the church's claim about the pictures "a bold-faced lie." She said she provided numerous family pictures of Sinclair, including some with his partner, but said none showed men kissing or hugging.

The 5,000-member High Point Church was founded in 2000 by Simons and his wife, April, whose brother is Joel Osteen, well-known pastor of the 38,000-member Lakewood Church in Houston.

Now High Point meets in a 432,000-square-foot facility in Arlington, near Dallas.

Wright said relatives declined the church's offer to hold the service at a community center because they felt it was an inappropriate venue.

It ultimately was held at a funeral home, but the cancellation still lingered in some minds, she said.

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Put me on wheels and I'll turn tricks.

Clever? Nah, I ran out of that years ago. But if you find this, let me know, k?
"The road goes ever on..." ~ Tolkien

In memory of my friend skip...
Go then, there are other worlds than these

A regrettable legacy of Pauline theology.

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Eudaimonia

Actually more a legacy of hatred and bigotry...
The odd thing is, I have attended funerals and Masses for Women and men who were gay and out, and in some cases infamously well known for their sexual orientations. And that was NEVER EVER a consideration!!!
When a friend died of uterine cancer, her partner was comforted at the alter by the Father and the Monsignor. No one expected less.
I am very aware Texas is not New Orleans. And I know this Arlington Church was not Catholic. But still...

To borrow from our own Aqua... (I'm sorry, I don't know the original source)
and to paraphrase...

Go then, there are other (better) worlds than these...




WW

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"I wondered, am I a lesbian, am I straight, or bisexual? Then I realized that I am just a slut.
So where's MY parade?"

---Margaret Cho

Wicked Wanda,

I think that the claim that homosexuality is a sin does indeed originate in Pauline theology, specifically his letter to the Romans, verses 26–28, and 32.

That the Catholic Church does, on occasion, have a more relaxed attitude towards homosexual lifestyles than some of the more entertaining Protestant sects do is, I suggest, due to a developed tolerance of the wide range of lifestyles it has had to accommodate over its 1,700 years or so of continuous operation.

This tolerance itself has, if I remember correctly, also been the source of occasional difficulties and controversies.

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Eudaimonia

Sweetie, I am not going to become involved in another one of the debates I am much too well known for in Pixies.



I am a Woman with strong convictions, beliefs, and practices. I do not attend the Church anymore, becaming tired of the seemingly unending lectures and counseling over my activities. (the rather infamous incident of an elderly Monsignor removing his hearing aid to tap it on the shelf in the confessional faster and louder as I began to divest myself of the sin of a 4sum the night before comes to mind. It's funny now, but was a little humiliating at the time)

I am NOT attacking jseal, and am not going to debate him. I am going to make my point here and then stop. I intend this to be my last post in this thread.

I am railing against the use of Bible verses by those who promote hatred and bigotry. The truth is, many of the loudest nastiest ones don't even know or understand the Bible. As I am a Dominican Girl, (A Catholic Girl's HS grad.) I DO know some parts of the Bible.

I once read a survey report in the news, the kind many of us laugh at when we hear, shaking our heads in wonder at others' ignorance, people who can't name the president, how many senators there are, who their own representatives are, or what the Bill of Rights is.

This one addressed the Bible. Thirty eight percent of Americans think the Old Testament was writen a few years after Jesus died. Ten percent thought Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. Some thought the epistles were the wives of the apostles. Every time I see morons holding up signs at funerals attacking Lesbians and gays, I remember that poll.

There are verses in the Bible that justify in some interpretation or another almost every act of hatred or violence.
To the verse you quoted (Romans 1:26) add Leviticus 18:22, and Lev. 20:13 (essentially the same thing, repeated) Genesis 19: 1, and so on.

Don't forget the verses that encourage and allow slavery, Leviticus 25: 44, then 1st Peter 2:18, plus verses that allow sex with the same slaves.

Lev. 18:19 -no intercourse during Her menses, or both are to die.
Mark 12:18, the Bible mandates than if the husband of a childless woman dies, she is supposed to fuck each of his brothers until she bears a MALE heir for hubby.
Mark 10:2 - No divorce. Ever. Period. Or remarriage of the divorced. (?!!)
Deuteronomy 22:13. Non -virginal brides are to be stoned to death immediately.
Deut. 22:22- a married person has sex with another married person, both must be killed.

Non -sexual verses- consider Ecclesiastes 1: 4 or Psalm 93, both used to prove the the Earth can't orbit the sun, and is the physical center of the universe.

There's a really strange verse, Deut. 25:11- a woman's husband is attacked, and she tries to save him by grabbing the attackers' testicles, she looses the hand!

There is so much more, verses that allow men to use prostitutes, but not their wives, allow Women (Girls) to marry at age 11, encourage polygamy and allow a male to have many concubines, rules against seeing our parents nude (!), against interracial marriage, or giving a name to one's penis!!!!

The literal interpretations are not about homosexuals, but about certain acts. Paul (in 1 Romans) was speaking about pagans who fucked temple prostitutes (male and female) not about believers (Jews) who practiced same sex acts. This is followed by 2 Romans, which begins by saying that it is not the reader's obligation to judge or act, that's God's job.

There is nearly nothing about Lesbians. (yes, 1Romans 1:26, but read the paragraph above)


The Bible is not a book of hate, though it has been used as one.

Try reading "Song of Solomon" with an open mind. It is an amazing work of erotic peotry, one that encourages oral sex, (including swallowing) and anal!
Oral: "Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men. In his shade I took great delight and sat down, and his fruit was sweet to my taste. He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love(Song of Solomon 2:3-4)

"Awake, O north wind, and come, wind of the south; make my garden breathe out fragrance, let its spices be wafted abroad. May my beloved come into his garden and eat its choice fruits! (Song of Solomon 4:16)"

Anal Sex:And “Draw me after you, let us make haste.” (Song of Solomon, 1:4) (reading this verse in full context helps)

Other Bible verses:
Jeremiah 49:4 suggests a woman’s shold have pride in her “valley”, (her buttocks and the cleft between them) and she should encourage her lover to cum against her backside: "How boastful you are about the valleys! O backsliding daughter who trusts in her treasures, saying ' Who will come against me?'

Lamentations 2:10 “The virgins of Jerusalem have bowed their heads to the ground,” suggesting how a virginal maidens should position themselves to receive anal sex to avoid becoming impregnated!

The story of Onan (Genesis 38:9) is used to enforce the belief that masturbation, oral sex, hand jobs etc. where wrong. Funny thing, when I read that I saw admonishement against a man who fucked his brother's wife and then withdrew to avoid impregnating her, "spilling his seed" It doesn't say that any act other than vaginal intercourse with your sister in law and using "withdrawal" for birth control is wrong.

There is nearly nothing about Lesbians. (yes, 1Romans 1:26, but read the paragraph above)





So?

You decide for youself. I did a long time ago.




WW

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"I wondered, am I a lesbian, am I straight, or bisexual? Then I realized that I am just a slut.
So where's MY parade?"

---Margaret Cho

Wicked Wanda,

Yes’m. I couldn’t agree with you more.

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Eudaimonia

That kinda says it all, doesn't it...

About 20 years ago, I recall the outrage of the family of a gay man who had died of AIDS after the good reverend condemned his lifestyle during the eulogy...I was outraged then, & I am outraged now...tho I must admit, I'm no longer surprised when religion lifts its shround & reveals the hate & bigotry underneath...

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

And then there's the wacko group who protest at (presumably straight) soldiers' funerals with homophobic messages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

What a weird world we live in when things tie together in such a way.

Steph,

Well, at least these people spread their bizarre tribal beliefs across the spectrum of “them”, including “homosexual and transgendered people, Roman Catholics, Muslims and Jews, as well as populations it considers to support the forementioned groups, including Swedes, Canadians and Americans”.

One would think that they would be familiar with St. Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, chapter 13. The final paragraph announces its topic, Love never fails (verse 8), develops the idea of love’s permanence in contrast to contingent and incomplete gifts, and closes with the assertion of love's superiority even over the other "theological virtues" (verse 13).

These people certainly are generous with their toxic opinions. Mr. Phelps does have some very colorful quotes! His nonsense reminds me a bit of 19th century America.

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Eudaimonia