No doubt this has been discussed before, but I feel that it is necessary to mention something that I have noticed. It has to do with straight men or women engaging in things that society considers gay. A good example of that is when a couple (man & woman) use a strap on and the guy is the one who is taking it up the rear. Now to me that would be a power trip for the woman as the roles are reversed and in the end it is the guy who is having something done to him. As I stated in my thread on strap on dildo's just very recently, my friend who has reservations about what is gay what is not, is a good example of what I am talking about. The funny thing is the gay and lesbian community go through this kind of discrimination regularly.


As I mentioned above about my friend, I asked him this simple question, "if you were blindfolded and a guy and a girl both were in the room and you got head by both would you know the difference?" To which he replied "yeah I would because of the stubble on the guys chin." Now I find that a farce because as anyone knows when a person is sucking dick, the external part of their face doesn't actually touch anything. It's the mouth and tongue that is doing all the pleasure.

To me what makes a person gay or lesbian comes down to some very simple things and they are: liking the same sex and doing something about those feelings. All this comes down to is one thing.........choice. We as a society should not be condemned for the choices that we make. If a person has feelings towards the same sex and they can't help it so what? What business is it of society to tell this person what is acceptable? What about those who bat for both teams? Is society's stigma so bad that people have forgotten what it means to have tolerance of other's?

There are those who are so repressed that they go and "bash gays" because they think it's not natural. Whatever their reasons, they are not justified as the person who is getting bashed up wouldn't go any where near the person who is beating them up. I have known geeks when I was at school that were called "gay" and beaten up for no reason. Now of course they weren't gay but it's not the point. It's the whole notion of being labelled as such and having people react and prey on that person because they are too weak to stand up to bullies. Once out of high school, the bully is society. The most interesting part about this is, the gay and lesbian community are tolerant of straights and leave them alone, they don't go around 'straight bashing" because society wouldn't condone this kind of behaviour.

I am straight and have known over the years gay and lesbian people, I have no problem with them and have worked with these people as well. Perception is everything, but judging a person on what they are as apposed to their qualities and what they can do is where the problem lies. I have known a gay guy go for a job at a pub, he had experience and was qualified with his cert 1 and 2 of hospitality. He was also doing his cert 3 and 4. He appled for this position against a straight guy who had no experience and no qualifiactions. Take a guess who got the job? The straight guy, why you might ask? (One would think from an employeer's point of view, you would want the most experienced and qualified person to fill the role.) Simple because he is not gay.

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good notion.. My girlfriends sister is a lesbian.. and her sister was surprised by the fact that i knew.. and didn't treat her any different.. and i asked why would I? its not hurting me is it.. its her life.. and her wanting to be with girls isnt hurting me in any way.. so why would I care?

To be fair, I really think that homophobia is a pretty outdated notion. Sexuality makes no difference whatsoever to me and I personally know far more gay and lesbian people than I do homophobes....actually I don't know any homophobes and if I did, I'd soon 'bash' that out of them!

Funnily enough, I have been 'straight bashed' by a lesbian in a gay club once (not physically, but verbally) which is ironic as I was eyeing her up!

What I'm trying to say is, in the UK at least, we're pretty tolerant of sexuality these days to the point where we've moved beyond political correctness. I'll give you an example:

I was out (out - hahaha get it?) with a couple of gay guys a few weeks back and they were laughing about how they hate when gay men talk about 'their partner' rather than their 'boyfriend' and how any guy who says 'partner' immediately sounds gay even if he isn't. Bearing in mind, I'd never met these two guys before, I felt it was perfectly fine to joke: 'These bloody queers, they're so politically correct', to which, without missing a beat, one of them replied 'Er, do you mind, we prefer the term 'pouf' actually' and we all fell about laughing. A few years ago we most people (including me) wouldn't have dared make a joking comment like that, just in case it was misconstrued, but in the UK these days, most gay people don't expect to be treated badly so they've got more of a sense of humour and less of a chip on their shoulder than a straight person might expect.

Perhaps it's just the UK who feel like this, but when I see shows like 'Will and Grace' I think, 'Nah....this is a global thing'

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I agree in the main with you Lou, but I still find a number of people who feel... uncomfortable around gay men and women, and sometimes the jokes aren't so funny. I've never gotten what exactly the percieved problem is with "the gays", so I've always been very aware when people display prejudice regarding orientation. I'll try and mention a few specific things I remember.

One is the way that if a man or woman is gay, some people see it as a loss, or a weakness on their part. Someone (a straight female) saying that some female celeb being gay is such a loss. Guys implying that some footballer being gay is a weakness. I hear a lot of "Really? He's gay? Well, he must be a giver..." as if to say that "taking it" would be a complete loss of masculinity.

I've also found females to be less accepting of lesbians than they are of gay men. I've one friend who was weird with me for aaaages after I told her I was bi. She only became normal again with me when she basically forgot about it, and since then she still gets awkward when it comes up.

A friend who is gay recently went off to uni but came back because he was so desperately unhappy because the guys he was living with in the dorms. They were just so horrible to him - I must admit, perhaps they just didn't like the cut of his jibb, but from what he told me it was mostly to do with their discomfort about being around a gay man.


And these are examples, not isolated events. I do agree though that there is a lot more light-hearted attitude, and less chance of actual physical beatings due to orientation. However, there is still an underlying prejudice that should be ignored, but not forgotten.


And by that I don't mean remember your prejudices...

I personally support the gays and hope they all find a lot of partners. That should leave a few more ladies looking for a friend.

Now the lesbians are another story. If she is a 'sharing' person .... I LOVE the lady, but I don't donate to the competition.

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Lou

The "Will and Grace" thing is not a view of total America (or Australia).

In the States I saw places where orientation did not seem to matter, yet others where any form of difference seemed confronting.

Tolerance is a fickle thing.

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