cheating...a time and place for all things
 

I know many here at Pixies have a slight sexual obsession. So I'm possing a hypothetical for you.

(I watch the show Cheaters alot on G4.)If you are in a relationship in which sex has stopped for a very lengthy period of time. Would you cheat on your S/O and how long do you think it would take for the most monogomous among us to actually do so? If you wouldn't then what would it actually take for you to cheat?

If sex has ceased for a long time I have a hard time seeing it as cheating.

Lots of variables to consider when trying to answer those questions so I guess it's easiest for me to contemplate if I just focus on the sex having gone out of the relationship aspect.

It really depends upon the individuals involved as to what the "limit" would be of going without sex. Then there's the question of whether the love is still there. Personally, I do believe that it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time but there's a sort of filter in our hearts/minds that keeps many of us monogamous. Sometimes that filter is easier to let down than at others. So yes, I do believe that somewhere inside each of us we hold the capability of cheating on our partner.

For me it would have to be some sort of extraordinary circumstance for me to cheat, even if the sex was gone from the relationship. Not really sure what that circumstance would be but I do know I wouldn't be able to just decide, "Okay, I need to get laid. I'm going to cheat on her today." That's just not me. I can't answer how long a time it would take for me to get to the place where I decided I needed someone else. No idea at all. :shrug:

If I was in a relationship where the sex had stopped for a lengthy period of time, I'd think I'd be asking myself some very serious questions. Sex is so important in a healthy relationship, and if it was to cease then that would be an indicator that the relationsip is in serious trouble. Rather than cheating on my SO, I'd try to see if we could work through the issues, and if that didn't work...I'd break it off with him. Then, I wouldn't have to cheat.

^^^^^Perfect - that's exactly what I was about to say.

Here's what Dan Savage, my favorite sex advice columnist has to say about it.

It would depend on why the sex stopped!!! If it was just because we weren't "clicking" then I think I would seriously consider ending the relationship before I cheated. If he was unable to have sex, like due to an illness or something, then forget it, I'd never cheat.

Ah but if sex IS important, then it should be had only with the person you love, or not at all....and if it ISN'T important, why risk losing/hurting someone you love for the sake of it?

Cheating is a state of the heart, not a measure of how wet your dick got.

Mind you, I wish my relationship with my partner left room for others, but her head's not built that way so it would be cheating.

Put another way, if your partner walked in on you in bed with another and it didn't bring a smile to their face, it's probably cheating.

I'm with the wise man right above me. ;)

I'm not naturally monogamous and I think the idea of monogamy is, frankly, silly. But the man I choose to spend my life with feels differently, so I play by the rules. To do anything else would just be disrespectful.

If the sex had stopped in our relationship and we still were very in love and wanted to stay together but felt sexually unsatisfied, then I would talk to my OH about "cheating" though I don't think it can really be called that when you both agree that it's a good idea. But if the idea didn't go down well, then further actions down that line would feel like a betrayal. And if I was the one frustrated and my OH said "no" to me being with other people, then it'd be down to me to weigh up how important sex was compared to my relationship with my OH.
I don't think I could ever be with someone other than my OH without him knowing and understanding why, i just wouldn't be able to go behind his back, look him in the eye and lie about it. Not without experiencing some extreme depression because of it.

But that's just my :2cents:

Oldfart and Osuche speak for me too!

These are some very valid points. I'm glad that many felt like posting even though the circumstances leading up to the decision to cheat were not laid out clearly.

I think that all avenues should be explored before making a drastic decision such as cheating. One thought I had on the circumstance didn't involve a person who just felt like a change or some irreconcilable difference in the relationship. I was more aiming at a situation in which a partner was happy in their relationship but had lost the inclination toward sex (like those cases we have heard of where everything is fine but a couple hasn't had sex in years and feels no urgency to get back in the saddle).

If it's not important why would they be hurt? They would only be hurt if it was important to them and if it's important then they should understand the need for it.

You cannot have it both ways reread what I posted from Dan Savage.

Cheating
 

I didn't read all the posts already written, because I wanted to make a very specific point, and not be swayed by anyone else.

Cheating means, at the most basic sense, telling a lie.

My sexual proclivities and appetites are pretty well known here. I have tried monagamy, and hated it. (my marriage). It turned out I was the only one practicing mongamy, and I ended up with an STD. (my only one)
So my decision was not to ever do it again. But I NEVER EVER EVER will pretend otherwise.
If a person enters into any kind of relationship with me, they have to know from the begining that it will be an open relationship.
Trust is everything. If I promised not to do something, such as fuck anyone else, then I wouldn't. But i don't see myself making that promis again.
If sex has departed your realtionship, then there are much deeper issues tha have to be addressed.


WW

^^^^

If you Feel you need to cheat there is something wrong .... get with your OH and talk it out

P.S. Basically I'm agreeing with W W

This, in a nutshell, has always been my tug-of-war...my tendency to have strong feelings of affection for more than one at once. I am not naturally monogamous. I have trained myself to be that way, essentially for the same reason Osuche explained...to do otherwise would be dissrespectful.

I don't need to reread it thank-you. He was arguing exactly the same point as me - that some people say it is important and others say it isn't. His argument is that either way, it's ok to cheat, my argument is that either way it's not.

You're argument doesn't stand up. Here's a specific example:

Personally, in my marriage I think sex is very important, but we don't have a great deal of it at the moment - Fussy didn't find me particularly sexy during my pregnancy and now we have a young baby sapping our energy. However much I understand the need for sex, I would not tolerate Fussy cheating on me, since, as others pointed out, cheating is deception. If we were in an open relationship, then sex outside of it would not be cheating and to use the word in those terms is just being lazy with the English language.

It's a very male (sorry to generalise, but it's true) assumption that the actual act of sex is what causes the harm in a relationship. In fact it's usually the lies and the humiliation of it which hurts the most.

I think loss of intimacy is a much more contributing factor to cheating than loss of sex drive.

But I've always felt that intimacy is more important than sex anyway, so it might just be my way of validying my point.

I would agree with this - a few years ago my first boyf cheated on me with my best friend - and the lies and humiliation I felt was much worse than the actual physicality itself (although that did hurt a lot). I think the fact they tried to cover it up, despite the fact I'd seen them having sex was the worst thing - and having to face them and all our other friends after was pretty horiffic.

I was both a cheater and a cheatee. Didn't feel good either way, in the long or short run...and I ain't planning on going thru THAT shit again!

I'd rather share a third person before I feel the need to cheat. If I'm with someone else, then I hope my partner feels the same. If we can't do that, then forget about it. I'll let it be known there are levels of fun within sex I can deal with, but we gotta do it together, or there's no point in being with someone.


This almost made me set to ask you for your hand in marriage, WW...but then I realized that it's prolly "counter productive" in the context of things! :blink:

You are misreading what he and I are saying, then.

To the "Cheating Is Always Wrong" crowd sex is both simultaneously so important that one should never cheat because of the hurt feelings of the cheated on and so unimportant that people should happily live without it.

It cannot be both which is exactly what you are saying it is. Either that or you are not communicating your point very well.

In particular you need to reread the last paragraph of his I posted since he's quite clear that it NOT OK for that particular person to cheat, and they should break it off. So he is NOT saying it's always OK to cheat.

To be honest, I think you're misreading what I'm saying, but since I only had 61/2 hours sleep last night, and since I've pretty much averaged that for the last 113 days, I really can't be bothered to bat this argument back and forth Jude.

You underestimate my intelligence and ability with the English language if you think I don't realise he's saying it's not always OK to cheat.

However, every time we have sex with someone we run a risk of pregnancy or catching an STI. Even if condoms are being used (I mean would you have sex with someone with HIV, even if using a condom? I wouldn't dare) that risk is still there. Even if you've been sterilised pregnancies do still happen.

A worst case scenario:

Say my husband decides that he is justified in having extra-marital sex for whatever reason, because sex is important to him and he's not getting it at home - maybe because I have a serious illness or disability. The person he happens to sleep with is HIV positive (his partner hasn't told him, because she doesn't know, or she chooses not to disclose it, because, sex is important to her too, and she's can't get any when she tells people she has HIV.) The condom splits and my husband becomes infected, which is passed to me, during his daily caring routines. He has a cut finger from preparing my meal and in the process of helping me wash my privates, giving me my daily shot, changing my colostomy bag....whatever it may be...he passes the infection to me leaving me free to pass it onto our kids, other family members etc etc.

Or maybe he just risks giving my son a half sibling, so that he now has to share his father's time and financial resources with another child.

Sex has consequences, therefore it's important to know whether your partner is monogamous. It's naive and ignorant to think otherwise. Sex for the sake of physical pleasure alone is trivial and therefore not an acceptible reason to risk a meaningful relationship.

The point is, the unfaithful party is choosing to take the risk of sleeping with someone who may or may not have an STI, or creating another life in this world, the person who is being cheated on has no choice as to what they are being exposed. That is WRONG and you can't argue with that.

I totally agree with this.

Why is it more wrong for a person to cheat than it is for one partner to completely deny the other physical companionship? If sex is sooooooo important then the person not giving it up needs to understand that their partner needs and give it up occasionally.

I get that you feel sex is important and I happen to agree with you. I agree that there are consquences and dangers. You are ignoring the other side of it though in this case. That being what I just said above, if it's important, then it's always important and you can't expect your partner to happily live without it just because for what ever reason one partner doesn't feel like having sex.

With all due respect, Jude, now you've changed your tune completely! The person you quoted made it clear than extra-marital sex was only permissable in cases where there was a justifiable reason for there not to be sex in the relationship (i.e.illness etc) and that in the case of the person who wanted sex elsewhere just because they weren't getting it at home, they should sort it out or split up, NOT have sex outside of the relationship.

And just for the record, there isn't much sex in our house right now, and that's HIS choice, not mine, so I'm speaking as one of those 'sexually deprived' people, who, in your view would be justified in having sex outside of my marriage.

Pick me!!!


Pick me!!! :D

Hahaha - thanks for the vote of confidence WI. Love ya x

I'm hearing ya Lou.

Just because someone doesn't feel like having sex, doesn't mean their partner has the green light to stray. Real reasons for not being able to make love must precipitate discussions and reasonable accomodations.

But sex is a barometer for other things. When one partner is withholding sex from the other, it's because there's a reason. Fix that, and the sex will return.

If the partner is not willing to attempt a fix...then the relationship should be questioned.

Where have I changed my tune? My stance the entire time has been the same. That being that people who say cheating is ALWAYS wrong cannot have it both ways when it comes to the importance of sex. It is either an important aspect of the relationship or it isn't. If it's important then it's important enough to provide on occasion even when you may not feel 100% into it because your partner needs/wants it. If it's not important then you shouldn't feel bad when your partner looks for it else where.

When my wife was pregnant we were unable to have sex. After losing two children her OB told her she wasn't even allowed to have orgasms because of fear of losing another baby. She could have taken care of my needs through oral sex but that seemed to me to be unfair to her since that tends to arouse her and I figured it would be cruel to get her turned on with no way to release. And since she spent the last seven weeks of her pregnancy lying in a hospital bed that led to some logistical problems as well. So I went pretty much the entire seven months of her pregnancy without physical affection from my wife. And from anyone else for that matter.

If she could have taken care of my needs I know she would have, and I know she felt bad for not being able to. As I felt bad for her because she did get horny in that seven months and there were times when she wanted the affection as much or more than I did.

To be honest I thought about cheating and I had offers. But in the end I couldn't and wouldn't hurt my wife in that way.

I wouldn't judge another person in the same situation if they cheated though. That's between them and their partner.

As far as your situation goes where he's perfectly capable of performing but isn't I wouldn't judge or blame either. Again it's not my place.

Ah but it's NOT between them and their partner if their partner doesn't know it's happening!

I've said it before in this thread but I'll say it again - having sex with someone other than your partner with their permission is not cheating - the act of cheating, by its definition involves deception, not a decision made as a couple for one or both parties to have sex outside of their marriage.

Cheating is a "me" thing, not an "us" thing and you can't do "us" and "me" at the same time.

I am such a tart that cheating is a natural part of me, but the pain it causes the person/people who trust/s you isn't worth the gratification.

When the trust is more important to you than the genital buzz,there's no conflict.

When the genital buzz is more important, forget the idea of a relationship.

Easy!

OF, I think you've summed it up very nicely. :boink:

To me this is a different case--it's an externally imposed and temporary restriction. I don't think such a situation justifies cheating.

I just read this article before checking out the boards today....

http://men.msn.com/articlebl.aspx?c...096355&GT1=9212

Ok... Now I've read all of the posts and I'm in the camp that says cheating is only when deception and lies are part of it. I think there can be cheating without sex. This would be more devestating to me than extrimarital sex. I could handle it if my OH had sex with someone else for a purely physical reason - assuming that there was some reason that I couldn't do it for him - but I couldn't handle it if he were emotionally and spirtually involved with someone else. That would be a long term thing and I would be really hurt if he felt the need to get that connection outside of our marriage. I understand that the physical can be long term too, but it would not as big of an issue for me. I guess I'm more open to sharing physically than emotionally. :shrug:

cheating
 

Well,good question.
We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry lets assume that He's right okay and lets look at a country that followed his will in that area; we have no more sexual issues in this country, 100%percent of all the sexually transmitted diseases in this country are gone. rape, child molestation, murder, homosexual issues, gender issues a huge % of our divorce rate and many of our emotional problems and issues are traced back to sex, all of this is gone.
I was talking to a nurse friend of mine she told me that their is a disease that they are transferring not by vaginal sex, but by oral sex and kissing (if you have the virus). They are having oral sex because it's not sex. (I wonder what president in the 90's made that thought a reality???) The disease gets in the lungs and over the next 5 to 10 years will kill our kids.
What if I am nuts and that all this is Bullshi_, what if it is nowhere near that bad? Could it be in ten years? Well take a look at the progression of these sexual issues over the last 50 years and see how these cases have increased and gottenworse year after year after year.
Question: Time or place for cheating ? I say hell no, cause you could kill yourself or somebody if you do.
What happens if im wrong, and their is no God or God does not care what we do. Even if that is true, isn't abstinence and monogamy the very best choices
for us and everybody? Why cheat, work on the relationship and if yu still have sexual issues after some serious work than maybe divorce is the right thing to do.
I not trying to am not judging anyone cause my past is just as attractive as yours and some worse. But it just seems like common sense to me, and having some self control.

What seems like common sense to one is foreign to others. We're all wired differently.

Some would view cheating as a way to save a marriage.