One Step Forward...Alito Steps Backward...our country recedes????
 

Supreme Court Ch Ch Ch Ch Changes...turn and face the strain?

What are your feelings on "Women's Rights"? Roe vs. Wade? The Supreme Court? The retirement of Ms. O"Connor? The placement of Mr. Alito? Mrs. Alito's breakdown as Judge Alito was questioned by the Democratic party?

And finally...

What good or bad will befall us upon his appointment?

Add anything that is on your mind!

LixyChick,

Should Mr. Alito be confirmed, the court will become a bit more conservative.

Which I would prefer does not happen^^^ If they try to take away my rights I will fight them any way I can.

Yep. One difficulty is that Federal judges hold their positions for life. I think we’ll be better off changing where they are nominated and confirmed.

What are your feelings on "Women's Rights"? jeepers that's a tricky, convoluted, multifaceted thing but i'll keep it short. since they needed to make it a law in the first place, then i believe they should have afforded men those same rights. if a woman knows who the father is, he needs to be notified. (of course, i realize that there is no way to tell if a woman is lying when she says she doesn't know but still, they left them (men) out of it completely.) i feel the same way about minors, parents should be notified. exceptions to both cases would be emergency life-saving situations

Roe vs. Wade? it still amazes me we actually needed a law.

The Supreme Court? it is a necessity, and an extremely important part of our govn’t.

The retirement of Ms. O"Connor? i wish she would have waited a few more years, but it’s her life.

The placement of Mr. Alito? only time will tell

Mrs. Alito's breakdown as Judge Alito was questioned by the Democratic party? boo-hoo. didn’t get much sympathy from me. buck up, lady.

And finally...

What good or bad will befall us upon his appointment? no clue. again, only time will tell

Add anything that is on your mind! * drools *

My feelings are that this is just another step towards the far religious right. My problem with this is simply that many of them feel that their beliefs should be the beliefs of everyone, and are taking steps to legislate it that way. My feelings on this are simple, if you feel something is wrong, don't do it. Don't make it illegal or try to control it.

But that's just me.

It's the same way with our Supreme Court & I think it gives the gov't too much power. Bush has been able to nominate two? three? judges now? Same with the papacy. When are we ever going to see a liberal pope?

What are your feelings on "Women's Rights"? I think the biggest body of work left is in the workplace (inequalities in pay, opportunities for advancement, work/family flex, etc.)

Roe vs. Wade? I think it is legalized murder though I do believe there are circumstances where it should be permitted.

The Supreme Court? A generally wise institution.

The retirement of Ms. O'Connor? Good luck and long life to her. And many thanks for her service to our country.

The placement of Mr. Alito? Too early to tell yet.

Mrs. Alito's breakdown as Judge Alito was questioned by the Democratic party? She should have been prepared for the rough questioning her husband was going to get.

What good or bad will befall us upon his appointment? Too early to tell yet.

Makes me think of Lincoln's response when asked if he thought God was on the Union's side in the civil war. His response, "I just hope we're on His."

Point, I wouldn't hope for either a liberal or a conservative pope, only one that, to the best of his ability, attempts to communicates what he believes is God's intent. Same is true for religious leaders of all faiths.

Roe v Wade ... I was sympathic at the time of the ruling, but it concerns me that over 50 million new lives have been done away with and that we continue to lose over 3,000 new lives each day. It also concerns me that I've read of significant numbers of post abortion complications ... physical and psychological for the ladies that have undergone abortions ... including many deaths. I read that the Center for Disease Control has said that the abortion death rate increases 40 to 60 percent per week for each week of delay after the eighth week. These never seem to get reported by the mainstream press. In a European study, almost 25% of the women who "interrupt their first pregnancy" have remained permanently childless. It also troubles me that suicide rates for women who have had abortions is many times higher than for those that carry their babies to term.

I wish there were more emphasis on the harm we may be doing to women without giving them all the information to let them make informed decisions and more focus on making all medical procedures safer. I think it's a sin when we hurt people and then hide the hurt.

Does this mean I'm pro-life. I guess it does, but, more than that ... I think we need to have really open and honest discussions of what's happening. Too many lives are being lost and too many people hurt to assume there's nothing here worth discussing.

And, on Alito. It's interesting that two of three rulings he has made upheld the RvW. I really think as a judge on the Supreme Court, his task is to rule on the constitutionality of issue at hand, not to make new policy. It troubles me whenever a judge displays an activist agenda because his/her rulings than can become law without any vote. I keep thinking creating laws is supposedly the reason we have congress.

I would love to comment here but since I am trying to come to terms with the three stooges vying for the opportunity to form our next government I must button my lip and move on......AND bite my tongue lol :)

LOL DB, I heard that quote the other day, too. Great one!

I am Catholic born & bred and but all I wish is that condoms are permitted (OK, that's not all but that's the big one for me).

I completely agree with that Steph.

I would think that if the numbers were truly that significant for a procedure that by your figures is done 3,000 time a day in America there would be a bigger outcry by insurance and other health care initiatives. I personally have only heard the dangers of abortion pointed out those who are pro life, never a neutral organization.


As for parental notification, I walk the fence here because as a parent I feel I have the right to know but as a child advocate I know that some young women who become pregnant have been the victims of incest and in that case the parent should be relieved of all decision making, without it taking an injunction to have that happen.

Father's rights, another line... if a father is given the right to know prior and have a say in whether the woman can abort then could that be flipped to where a pregant woman could be taken to court to force her to have an abortion if the father chose NOT to have the baby or could he be excused from providing support if he would have preferred the woman abort?

interesting point lil. imho ... NEVER should any woman be forced to have an abortion. the father could, instead, be required to legally give up any claim to the child and yes, not be required to provide support.

your concerns regarding victims of incest are totally legit and i wish there was a way to wave a wand and determine who is a fit parent and who isn’t. however, there are no other circumstances where they withhold medical info from parents, abortion should be no different. it would make it hard for child advocates like yourself to help the victim make that decision, i know, but to make it illegal or unnecessary to notify parents essentially takes away parent's rights. and for those of us who would never hurt our children, it’s a real slap in the face. it just doesn’t seem to me that we (parents) should lose rights across the board because it would make it easier for legal purposes.

I know...and I agree basically, it's just one of those places where I can't make my heart and mind both agree on a position.

I think if we start allowing men to avoid support by simply saying they don't/didn't want the child we will be in a world of hurt.

I agree with you on that point Lilith, however (and at the risk of straying from the topic), I think there needs to be a change in the support/visitation system. If a man is responsible for the creation of a child he is responsible for supporting that child. I also would hope he would do his best to be a father for the child and not just a paycheck. In cases where he is not given that opportunity because the mother decides she doesn't want to tell him about the child (until, say, 10 years down the road) I don't believe he should be financially responsible at that point, unless he wants to be. In this scenario he was not given the choice of being a father for those ten years so he should not be charged support for that time. Given a case where the mother believes the father's involvement in the life of the child would be harmful then she names him as the father and has the court limit his access.

I agree there is a huge problem with that. I have seen it in my district dependency court. The problem is that often it's a he said/she said regarding whther the man was told.

My thoughts are real simple on this matter.

When men can carry a baby and give birth, only then should they have any say in the matter. A woman's body is just that...hers.

No one should tell a woman what she can and can't do regarding her body. If a man does not want to live up to his responsibilities and rights as a parent, he will find a way not to anyway without having any say in the matter of abortion.

I am of the belief that abortion should not be used as a means of birth control, yet in saying that I will not judge any woman who decides for her own personal reasons to terminate a pregnancy. It is easy to say that there are other alternatives but until you have walked in the shoes of someone facing such a decision any discussion IMO is moot.

I have taken a few of the girls that I have had in my care for abortions and each time my heart broke for them and their decisions but I never once placed my views above theirs and offered anything other than support for the decision that they made.

I think I will get back to the three stooges here in Canada.

i know, it's damn tricky. but when it comes down to it, men have just as much right to see their child come into the world as the mother does.

it's a tough one because with rights come responsibility and some of that just can't be placed with a man.

that's true, but again i think that in order to make it easier for legal puposes, it steps all over the good guys... or at least the people just trying to do what's right for them.

i see it everywhere: becasue of the assholes of the world, normal, decent people get stripped of their rights.

Could you please explain which responsibilites, that come with parental rights, those would be?

I would be devastated to learn of having lost a child to abortion without even being made aware of it's existance.

i am not speaking for lil here aqua, but i took it to mean prenatal responsibilities.

Insurers are for profit organizations. Full term pregnancies cost more than abortions, most of which are performed early in pregnancy. An early pregnancy abortion costs less than an advanced pregnancy abortion. As it is not in an insurer’s best interests to publicize information which may increase its operating costs, such publication does not occur.

In the U.S.:

Early pregnancy abortions can cost anywhere from $350 to $600. The cost for a late second trimester procedure can cost up to as much as $3,000.

The estimated cost of delivery alone is $6,000 – $8,000 for a normal pregnancy and the cost increases if it is a high risk pregnancy. Well Baby visits add to the cost

Ah, I think you are likely correct wyndhy. If such is the case I am inclined to agree with Lil. In my feeble mind I can think of no workable solution in allowing the father an option when it comes to an abortion. As it stands, abortion is legal, so the choice should be with the woman.

On the subject of RvW... My views mirror that of Rabbit and dicksbro.

I also agree with WI's statement above, and take it a step further in that I would feel the same if I were aware or not.

there isn't a workable solution. this is why i think it annoys me there need be any laws in the first place. whether it's legal or not, it's going to happen so let people work it out amongst themselves, for themselves and by themselves and govn't should stay the hell out of it...they should literally have no position.

i feel the same way about right to die

Is this to say you feel there should also be no laws in regards to robbery, assault, vehicle operation, etc? No laws, period?

of course not. i meant laws regarding abortion.

or anything else that has to do with a person's body and no-one elses. drugs, seatbelts, right to die, etc.

I didn't want to assume. There are some people that have the viewpoint that there should be no laws. Some feel there should be no Govt. Some may even feel I should be Supreme Dictactor of Earth. (If there is such a person(s), I'm thankful I don't know them... that's lunacy right there!)

I don't think that anything should be made legal on the basis that people are going to do it anyway.

i understand. the first part of my post was not clear. what i'm saying is i don't think abortion should be legal or illegal. the govn't should have no position. if a woman, or a couple, want to terminate a pregnancy it is between them, not them and the govn't.

but it's too late to go back now

I was not referring to the cost to health insurance per procedure but more the cost to insurance companies if it were true that abortions were leaving a wide trail of death and disaster to the women having abortions. I would think the lawsuits and out of court settlements would make insuring those doctors prohibitive if it were the case that the procedure was so dangerous to women.

I've had the procedure and in my personal observation it was physically easier to bear than wisdom teeth removal. Emotionally it was life altering.

And yes TY wyndhy I meant men can't take the responsibility of gestation and delivery.

A full term pregnancy carries significantly higher risks for women under the age of 20. One in every 400,000 women dies from an abortion while 7 out of 100,000 (28 times greater) die from carrying a pregnancy full term.

Oh and Lixy as for Mrs. Alito's tears...I'm sure it's difficult to watch your spouse be placed under a microscope but too bad so sad. If he is going to hold a position that in this country bears lifelong power, he damn sure should be prepared to have every hair examined.

Oh Lilith, how very strong of you to share something that personal. I was going to keep my nose out of this thread, but i now feel that i can share too.

Although i am sure that my story is not unique, i am sure that there are other's out there that come close. My child was conceived through force from an unknown man (i still have difficulties with saying the "R" word) When i found out that i was PG, i knew that I couldn't live with myself if i terminated. I had the questions of deformity, diseases, and other complications but I knew that i could love the child however the child was born. My ex, whom i didn't tell about my baby's conception until many years later, has chosen to remain my child's father and is as active in my child's life as distance allows. As far as he is concerned he is my child's "daddy" and that is all there is to it. (I know he lurks, so props to you ex) Everyonce in a while i see certain looks that my child does that gives me the heebie jeebies, but i don't love my child ANY less for it, and both of my children are miracles to me.

I used to be of the opinion that no abortions should happen unless the mother's physical life, and not lifestyle, was threatened. I was waaaaaaaaaaay Pro-Life and did some demonstrations back when i was a teen. Today, i still lean towards pro-life, but after "walking" in other's shoes, i no longer have the heart to condemn. Every woman who becomes pregnant, unless they spontaniously miscarry, makes the choice to carry it or terminate, some are just more obvious than others.

It is my opinion that Bush won his presidency on these Supreme Court nominations. People knew that there were going to be vacancies in this term and who ever was elected had the chance to sway the S C to his ideals and beliefs. I agree that S C nominations should be done differently, by a popular American vote (leave the electoral college out) perhaps? Thusly, the American public having more say in how their Constitution is upheld.

You are the brave one. I had the procedure but not by choice. My baby died or was never physically viable. I was 10-12 weeks pregnant but the baby was only 8-10. When I began to miscarry I had the procedure. I had tried for years to get pregnant. Luckily 3 months later I was blessed with the news that my son was on the way.

dicksbro,

Was this the study you were referring to? Suicides after pregnancy in Finland, 1987-94

Very similar to what happened to Mrs Zoid, Lil...twice she began to miscarry at 12 weeks, but she had to have the D&C procedure or risk hemmoraging to death...the Dr assured us that they were likely "blighted ova," or bad eggs that would never really develop, & many women probably have them & never know anything beyond they missed a period or two...she began to feel she might be cursed to never have babies, but eventually we did have 2 boys...
personally I don't like the idea of using abortion as routine birth control, because it's NOT routine...but in the complex real world, I don't like seeing my government limit our options...sometimes medical neccesity has to override squemish concerns...

I wasn't making up the number 3,000. The statistics on the number of abortions is based on the annual numbers ...

1996 - 1,365,700
1995 - 1,363,700
1994 - 1,431,000
1993 - 1,500,000
1992 - 1,528,900
1991 - 1,556,500
1990 - 1,608,600
1989 - 1,566,900
1988 - 1,590,800
1987 - 1,559,100
1986 - 1,574,000
1985 - 1,588,600
1984 - 1,577,200
1983 - 1,575,000
1982 - 1,573,900
1981 - 1,577,300
1980 - 1,553,900
1979 - 1,497,700
1978 - 1,409,600
1977 - 1,316,700
1976 - 1,179,300
1975 - 1,034,200
1974 - 898,600
1973 - 774,600

http://womensissues.about.com/cs/ab...tionstats_2.htm

... and, as far as risks go ... there are many reports. I susggest at least looking at

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/pol...keditorial.html