BIBI & Scarecrow,

You are quite correct. The internationalization (ugly word that) of the War on Terrorism in Afghanistan moved forward when NATO took command of the International Security Assistance Force in August of last year. ISAF operates in Afghanistan under a UN mandate. Interestingly, this is NATO's first mission outside the Euro-Atlantic area.

ISAF currently numbers around 6,500 troops from 26 allies, nine partner nations and two non-NATO nations. Canada has contributed the second largest contingent, just behind that of Germany.

Personaly, I feel that this is insufficient for a country of Afghanistan's size, but it can be difficult to generate the needed political will among those who fail to see the benefits of a peaceful Afghanistan.

PantyFanatic,

As I have tried, and failed, to do before, let me again suggest that there are issues that cannot be usefully reduced to a one-liner or newsbite. International terrorism is one of those issues. If treating it so tries your patience, so be it.

And no, the world is not in the shitter. It is better now than it has been in many ways. Reduction in illiteracy, availability of clean potable water, the improvement in status of both women and children throughout the world are only some of those many ways.

I'm not likely to forget 9/11 anytime soon....Nor do i underestimate the scum sucking bastards..

I'm not American but i support Bush in his decision to get the mongrels....as i would support any country in stamping out terrorism.....Australia too is in the fight....

How dare they think that by killing our own that we are going to give in to them....fucken dickheads dont have a clue....all they are doing is putting more against them

They will not stop until they are all dead....and i have absolutely no qualms about being part of a country that is trying to help them on there way!!

If a country gives in....then it has already started its path to living in fear of terrorism...becoming none other than a 'slave' to them... I support the 'we do NOT negotiate with terrorists'

What has made these people so angry at us that they are willing to give up there lives to make a point. We in the developed countries are afraid to ask that question. Afraid because if the question is asked we might not like the answer.

I think that the act of terrorism is a cowardly method of dealing with a conflict. The act tends to draw attention away from the issue and onto the act. This is a conflict. I'm sure that if we are honest we would find that both sides are not as innocent as they make out.

"Blessed are the cheese makers."

There is no doubt that the immediate threat of those hardliners who have taken their struggle to unacceptable depths of inhumanity must be dealt with by all acceptable means.

But if this process is allowed to polarize the situation to the particular as opposed to the wider cause then a cycle of violence (the world's in the shitter) will no doubt continue.

Perhaps Mr. Bush is proud of his homespun black and white view of the world, and perhaps this persona will ring true enough with the American voters to give him a second term. But I'm not sure it will help the world to deal with some of its entrenched problems.

Palestine, exploitation of the Gulf, Chechnya, Iraq etc. provide those who would exploit opportunities to persuade that the infidel is at war with Islam. But for me the irony that Jew, Christian and Muslim are all supposed to be Sons of Abraham, brothers, is something that we all seem to forget. Perhaps if we started to remember it a bit more, we could start to clear up this mess.

Steph,



You are not alone. Many, many people agree with you.



I disagree with you. On the contrary, it would have been condescending of me to recount to you events of which you are already aware, as if you were unaware of them. It was quite reasonable of me to assume that you and everyone else who read my post knew of the events of 9/11.



I have never suggested that America either does or should get special consideration.



Of course they should be considered and criticized.



One of the primary purposes of American foreign policy is to maintain and advance American national interests. The same can be said of all sovereign nations. They differ in what they perceive those interest to be.

I never ever ever know how to make this point. And the only way I can think to do it now is possibly going to get me in enough hot water to boil the ocean between us. All I can say is this is no way about you, Sharni, I just need to borrow your words. You put it very well. It's just that I can't get past the idea that the bad guys are human.

I take nothing away from the fact that the various terrorist attacks were hideously wrong, and it is a normal human reaction to be both frightened and angry. Anyone who didn't react by thinking exactly what Sharni said:



either is more evolved than I am, or isn't being honest. I thought it. Until the shock and pain faded, and reason came back, I definately thought it.

But the people in Iraq (who didn't attack us....and who have no demonstrable connection to al Quaida...sorry, it demands repetition) are human too. We have chosen to kill to further our interests. And somewhere there's a woman seeing red in Iraq, who will never forget a bombed out marketplace, who may now agree with Sharni....but she's talking about us.

Violence begets violence. The British are STILL in Northern Ireland, and they didn't bomb it into submission first. The first signs of hope that horrific quagmire saw came with the incredibly controversial move to acknowledge and deal with the IRA. At least now they're making progress.

I'm not now, nor have I ever anywhere, suggested that terrorism should be ignored. But as long as we use the war on terror as an excuse to promulgate conventional warfare, we are breeding the next generation of terrorists. I know this, because should another country ever invade my home on some laudible pretext, I know how I'd react and I am NOT a violent person normally. So long as we think tanks and bombs are worth a tinkers damn in this war, we're going to lose. Oh, we'll win the invasion...but we won't win the war on terror. For that, we have to change the paradigm, or we're going to keep losing. More than that, though: until someone finds the damned high road in this conflict, it's going to escalate. And so long as we can justify killing civilians, or occupying countries, in persuit of the war on terror...we have no hope of finding the high road.

G

"They blow themselves up in order to get at us, and we launch 3 million dollar missiles off of giant floating iron islands 2000 miles away -- Who are the real cowards?"

-- Bill Hicks

The people who intentionally kill children and other non-combatants.

A firey airborne death would represent a pretty dangerous and fearful situation, I would think. To hijack an aircraft and fly it into a building so as to cause one's own certain death requires courage.

That said, courage is not always virtuous. I'm not saying these guys weren't nutjobs, I'm saying that the reason they were so dangerous was because they were nutjobs and extremely courageous. If they were not, they would have balked at the very idea of themselves doing what they did.

Belial,

I disagree with you. Killing children in order to get an adult to do something against her/his will is an act of cowardice, in my opinion. Just because the terrorist dies in the act does not make the act – or the actor – any less cowardly.

What then, is your definition of courage?

Blowing yourself up has absolutely nothing to do with courage. Those men and women are so misguided by their belief system that they cannot think for themselves. Remember, they think they are going to......"Paradise" It's the leaders of these misguided fools who hide behind their politics/religion who are the real cowards. I don't see any of the leaders of the terrorist faction blowing themselves up......they aren't that stupid. Cowards always send someone else to fight for them when they can.

Getting caught and imprisoned, possibly executed, represents danger.
Getting killed by someone trying to stop you represents danger.
Flying a plane which you are aboard into a building represents danger.
Confronting these dangers with the confidence - however misguided - that you are not acting in vain represents - according to the dictionary - courage.

No, terrorist leaders are not blowing themselves up. They might be, indeed, cowards.

Belial,

It does not take courage to do what they did. It took a mindset and a belief system that promised them "Paradise" once dead. They are told they will be martyrs in the name of Allah and what better way to die if you are one of "the chosen". They truly believe that they go to a better place. They are cowards who do as they are told....a person with true courage would say NO.