What's really scary is I can't think of any other possible explanation...& I'm the original "yabut" guy...

Conspiracy theorist ^^^ :D :D :D

You started it :trout:

:shock:













:roflmao:

A plot to do the done?

The US Government has been technically insolvent for years, in that it could not meet it's debts if they were all called in at one time, employee entitlements etc.

How do you do the done?

Secretary Paulson’s proposed $700 billion rescue package is a lot of money. So much money is involved that it represents a significant portion of the US GDP. This may be why there are enough members of Congress thinking about the cost to the taxpayer to slow down the bailout bandwagon. This package, together with loans to AIG and Bear Stearns, is almost 6% of GDP. This is much larger than the 3.7% of GDP of the savings and loan bailout in the late 1980s, which some Pixies may remember. Unexpectedly however, 6% of GDP is still much less than the cost of resolving other banking crises over the last 20 years.

Year Country...........% GDP

1988 US..................3.7
1991 Finland............12.8
1991 Sweden...........3.6
1994 Mexico............19.3
1997 Japan..............24.0
1997 South Korea.....31.2
2007 US..................5.8

Congress still needs to act soon. The Washington Mutual savings and loan was seized by the FDIC, and most of its operations were sold to JPMorgan.

:spank: Back to my dungeon- do you think chrome and leather? or is PVC sexier?

A few thoughts...

Recession. I suspect we're in one already. And frankly, even if we are not, a recession isn't such a bad thing - once inawhile. It's sort of like a forest fire. Forest's need the occasionaly forest fire to eliminate all the dead branches, leaves etc, that have accumulated. By not doing that occasionally - in a controlled, quick fashion, you run the risk of having a massive fire eventually. So, bottom line, recessions are unpleasant, but controlled one is needed once in awhile.

$700M bailout. I hear you all about holding folks accountable. And I agree with that. My question is, if we don't do this. What do we do. Just let the crashing finish? I'm not a economics person, so I don't know how 'bad' it could get, or what 'bad' would really mean. But I suspect we need to do this. I think. Again, one good - overlooked thing - is that I think this problem is stopping the massive out of control home building on farm and woodland, while leaving older houses empty. Maybe this will fix that problem.

Lil's dungeon. Leather. Definitely leather.

jax, that's $700B as in billion. not million. an obscene amout of money to be sure.

Yes, the government is "insolvent" - in that the books never completely balance. But the money that comes in, goes out to pay immediate debts and there hasn't been an issue. Imagine having a government that couldn't meet payroll. Or a government that had to lay off a branch of government...say, like the FDA. Or the Department of Homeland Security. Imagine a government that couldn't afford to send out food stamps, or send military aid to Georgia.

That's what I'm talking about. That we would suddenly have to start making choices about things that were "fiat" in the past. This type of expenditure - jseal says it's 3.7% of GDP - could do that.

Chome & Leather for sure :thumbs:

Or in stead of chome, how about stainless Steel with that kind of money :69:

Please define the Gross Domestic Product that our service economy produces. :confused:

I have TOTAL confidence in all figures from our Ministry of Propa..... Production. :rolleyes:

"Manufacturing"



:rofl:

The 1969 Pixies Lixicon reads:

The Gross Domestic Product is equivalent to the most disgusting meal produced in homes around the US which is obviously Tuna Casserole. So


GDP=Tuna casserole

Stainless it is. That way I can autoclave the whole place :p With that kind of $$$ I can build a ginormous autoclave into the dungeon walls :p

:thanks: Lil
:) Now I feel so much more confident in everything, knowing that.


:kisser:

The only one who can save America now is McCain!

oops, I mean, McClaine!!! :thumbs:

Lil-in your dungeon, could you build an olympic sized pool and fill it with lime jello, please? oh and crotchless black latex (a la Michelle Pfiffer Catwoman suit) scuba diving gear?






and a bowl of whirled peas

osuche,

In 1975 a hostile senate refused to sign the money bills which gave the Australian Government the funds to operate. As a young public servant I was faced with the very real prospect of being unable to pay my rent and feed the wife and cat.

This created chaos for a couple of weeks.

I see what you mean...hey, we could see a significant drop in the murder rate if we don't count the folks who needed to die anyway...

OF, we saw a similar govt shutdown a little over a decade ago, when Slick Willie & Newt the Coot got into a staredown over the budget. Fortunately, I chose not to go into the family business of being a govt. worker drone, but the fireworks were just as spectacular to watch, even if one's own wallet wasn't the rope in that little tug o' war...

don't mean to sound dumb...but what is a "neocon"?

:p

Someone freshly convicted?

Short for neo-conservative...another one of those tags created by the "liberal media", no doubt :wink:

:huh:

"My Republican vote [in the 1972 presidential election] produced little shock waves in the New York intellectual community. It didn't take long - a year or two - for the socialist writer Michael Harrington to come up with the term "neoconservative" to describe a renegade liberal like myself. To the chagrin of some of my friends, I decided to accept that term; there was no point calling myself a liberal when no one else did." [Irving Kristol, "Forty Good Years," "The Public Interest," Spring 2005]

It is interesting that neither of the candidates has made much about what the impact of this enormous borrowing will do to their ability to start new spending programs.

They are both proposing that most of the 2001 & 2003 tax cuts be extended or made permanent. Senator Obama has proposed phasing out some exemptions & deductions for people making more than 200K pa. Senator McCain said he would consider a freeze on non-military spending to pay the costs of the bailout. I have a hard time imaging how new spending programs can be financed without additional revenues.

The predisposed conspiracy theorists should be able to have a lot of fun with this.

I watched the debate too no need to translate what was said. And neither referenced how it will changed my dungeon either, in case you missed the part that was missing.

Not everyone watched the debate.

Some by choice. This thread is not about the debate. If you'd like to discuss the debate start your own thread and then the peeps who want to discuss that stuff with you can.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financia...LREFYiKis0N UE today: (excerpts):

The measure would create a program that lets the government spend unprecedented sums of public money to prop up tottering financial institutions by buying their sagging mortgage-based investments and other devalued assets.

A breakthrough came when Democrats agreed to incorporate a GOP demand — letting the government insure some bad home loans rather than buy them — designed to limit the amount of federal money used in the rescue.

Another important bargain, vital to attracting support from centrist Democrats and Republicans who are fiscal hawks, would require that financial firms repay the government for any losses. A leading proposal would impose a 2 percent tax on the companies if, after five years, the program had not made back what it spent.

*************************************
But, also:
"We've still got more to do to finalize it, but I think we're there," said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who participated in the talks at the Capitol.

and:

Congressional leaders, who announced the tentative deal after marathon negotiations that ended early Sunday, hope to have a House vote Monday; a Senate vote would come later.
**************************************

Meaning, there's still time for various congresscritters to offer "amendments" on behalf of some interest group or other that would fuck up the deal. I'm wait and see on whether this particular deal, this particular legislation will actually do the short-term job it's designed to do.

I agree with you. My comments were not about the debate, but rather on the topic of the $700B bailout, and how it will impact one of the two Senators - both of whom will be voting on the bill.

They are 2% of the vote and you already admitted you offered up the info as not everyone watched the debate. I will not tell you again. Start your own thread if you want to engage in your style of "discussion."

We were discussing how it will impact us.

And the Hell's Angels are 1% of the bikers.






;)

And PF is going to have to work harder to get locked into the silky room in the dungeon.

There is no need to be antagonistic. None of my comments were. Actually, some of the other posts are not at all about the bailout package. I am sure that if we remain on topic, the thread/discussion can remain very interesting, as the bailout will continue to be with us for a long time to come. We will be paying for this new government debt for many years.

I wonder how much it will cost after the interest on the bailout debt is added in?

I'm not antagonistic. I'm giving you a chance to make a better choice before I make it for you.









There is no doubt that this will cost us more than the $700,000,000,000. What has it already cost us in the eyes of other nations?

I'm trying to prepare my students and my own kids for the hard times to come but they have no background knowledge to attach to. I reference books we've read on the Great Depression but fact/historical fiction have cause blurry literary lines.

What do you all anticipate having to do without or doing differently? Have you already begun being more frugal?

I know I will be making sex toys on the cheap ;)

Well, this is a slightly different topic so if you want it elsewhere Lil, feel free.

An email I just recieved......



I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.



Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a We Deserve It Dividend.



To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.



Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..



So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.



My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

We Deserve It Dividend.



Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.



Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.



But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.



What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else



Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.



If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out

a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.



If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!



As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.



Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.



Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."



But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!



How do you spell Economic Boom?



I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.





Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Thats what I said, the 'Trickle Up' approach

I am unsure that the bailout itself will force any change of lifestyle. I think that both energy and potable water will be less abundant or more expensive in the future.