What I find even more terrifying than foolish American kids shooting each other with guns, is the foolish British kids who seem to be aping their behaviour more and more.

Who is the bigger fool - the fool that kills, or the fool that copies the other fools and kills?

Either way, these children (and yes, a 14 year old should still be a child) should not have access to guns, and in my opinion, the laws, the media, society in general need to change in order to prevent them wanting, obtaining and using them.

I'd prefer to pay the police a decent living wage and let them protect my home, family, and possessions.

I've been the "victim" of a crime involving a gun and my worst fear is the day one of my students decides to bring one to school. I have no problem with hunting and hunting rifles but I personally abhore guns (hand guns, automatic and semi-autos) and find their use in a civilized society unnecessary.

Loulabelle,

Given the gun ownership laws in place in the UK, I would have thought that you had achieved your goals.

Jseal, I'm afraid I think the parents of Rhys Jones would disagree.

Guns are, and should be, reasonably accessible to those that are legally able to purchase and own them.

Laws put in place to determine the eligibilty of those wishing to legally obtain a firearm work when followed.

The answer is not to pass harsher legislation that would impose more stringent requirements upon those that purchase firearms through legal means. The answer is to identify and eliminate the points of access that are not following the existing laws.

Don't punish the people that are following the law...go after the ones that aren't!

I agree WI. I don't own a gun and don't wish to, but I know many that do for hunting or other legitmate sporting activities. Certainly, the emphasis must be on reliable sources of identity verification and merchants who are using them as intended.

Loulabelle,

It would seem that for you the only acceptable number is zero. If so, then you will need to campaign for the private ownership of knives to also be made illegal in the UK (The Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997), as they are the weapon of choice.

There are several times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings. The same holds true for the Use of weapons in violent incidents. I refer here to Crime in England and Wales 2006/07 page 63 & Table 3.05, produced by the Research, Development and Statistics Directorate for the Home Office.

That should happen about the same time they pay the teacher of our society a decent living wage and there are enough good ones to help reinforce the parents consistent teaching of personal responsibility, work ethics, critical thinking and fairness. I'm sure it will all happen about the same time they assign a personal body guard to every citizen who may encounter somebody that missed those classes. :sad:

I think most Pixies know my considered convictions on this matter that is a hot button at all levels and in all American locations. I have no intent to argue the points of the issue here but will repeat the catch-22 slogan of my willingness to surrender my personal guns when you can assure me they are the last ones.

After viewing Mr.Moore's, Bowling For Columbine, I had to focus on and consider the comparisons of attitude and cultural examples (morals, societal views, living environments) between Canada and the US. For me, people .....not weapons, still are the center of the issue. :shrug:

I studied homicide rates at a graduate level and have to counter DB's link. I love you DB but Columbia is #1 in that list. I know you said "many of the other countries have other reasons for the killings" but comparing Columbia to Canada is truly apples to oranges.

What you have to realize (and I'm not directing this at you, DB) is that the US appears FIRST on that list when you're talking about developed countries.

I actually nodded when I read what Aqua wrote - the ease of gun ownership in America is so different than your neighbours to the north.

And osuche, I would think most Cleveland residents would have preferred the Cleveland Indians take the "global" spotlight over this tragedy.

That's the most interesting degree I've ever heard of. I can't even imagine the stress that must have put you under - studying information about homicides and statiscics for years on end.

Stistics do lie, I understand. Better to work with the raw data - and I don't like the data I see coming out of either the US or Canada. It feels a little like we're rearranging chairs on a sinking ship.

Your spelling mistakes aside, I'm not sure where you're going.

I SPELLED out where I was going there. I did a FEW courses on homicide.

There was no stress. I had no EGO (though it's hard for you to imagine, I would assume).

I didn't say that was my degree. I'm telling you I studied homicide rates in First World Countries.

I'm finding it hard to talk to you via the Internet when you're feeding me:

Stistics do lie

And you're jseal's friend.

Please tell me how you're adding to this conversation.

And can you tell us your opinion, jseal?

You have obviously cared enough to respond to this post. I'd be interested to hear your PERSONAL experiences.

Yeah, I guess I should add a new thread spitting invective at someone - that adds a lot to the conversation.

My point - as stated - was that we're rearranging chairs on a sinking ship. I don't care whether America or Canada or Zimbabwe is statistically worse when it comes to homocides via guns. I think we should spend some time figuring out how we solve the problem. The aggregate data have too many causalities - access to guns, population density, state of local government, socioeconomic disparities, etc (just to name a few).

The bigger question - the one we all need to be discussing - is how to we contribute to a solution. That's bigger than invective.

[QUOTE=osuche]That's the most interesting degree I've ever heard of. QUOTE]

Honestly, I have to revisit this.

Ms. Berkelely, I'd have thought you'd have more perspective.

I'm waiting with baited breath to hear how you EVER thought I said I had a degree in a subject.

Your ignorance, as is jseal's, is showing.

Aren't you awesome?

And since we're going there,

if you're helping a company, you're in school, AND married to an Indian, tell me about how you find the time to be here.

Methinks you're fronting.

AND

OH

YES

You ASSUMED a lot of shit about me.

Waiting for your answer, sweetheart.

:x:

/me backs slowly away from this thread, as I know it's really not worth it.


la dee dee, la de daa, life goes on...