I hear ya Blue! It seems to be the trickle UP effect as opposed to a domino trickle down effect.....is what's happening. The small "Mom and Pop" outfits, such as the one I work for (a subcontractor of much larger corporations, such as Knoll, International and Steelcase) are getting the bite well before the bigger guys! But, I have been told that Knoll, in this part of the country, is going under and it's production will be done in Mexico...with some of the more better known products going down south. And Knoll has been around here as long as most of my friends can remember. It will put over 2000 people out of work. Hershey (the candy company) was here for a while. It bought out Cherrydale......a company that had been around as long as Knoll....and then, suddenly, the building is empty again. Pillsbury moved it's N.E. company from here....and same thing....it had been around these parts as long as Knoll. Each week we notice something different in these surrounding towns. I wonder if this is how a ghost town becomes one? Wal-Mart had a bid in to build a Super Wal-Mart (exactly what the town needed to boost it's economy) and hubby said it's plans are now scrubbed. His company had won the bid to blast the new site.....so that's another job lost here. Then a Super WaWa ( a convience store that would have been much appreciated) made a bid for the same spot Wal-Mart had.....and suddenly it's plans were scrubbed. No explaination for either disinterest.

As to the spending notion......I agree with it in principal......but if there is nowhere in your local to spend......the drive can make you think twice before putting your pennies forth. The one and only (small time) dept. store within reasonable driving distance to me was an Ames.....which just pulled up stakes. The general joke around here now is......you can't even buy a pair of socks or underwear in this friggin town! And, it's absofrigginlutely true. I drive the distance when I need something.....I have to because I have no choice. But shopping is a bigger chore now than tending the back fourty! I can't be expected to go broke.......while spending all my money on gas....just to get to a store to spend my money....which is now cut back from stock loss and hour cuts! I don't have much of a savings since I bought a home...and it's getting harder and harder to keep from dipping into the proverbial nest-egg. OK....granted, I am not as bad off as some people I know or have heard of....and I know my little part of the world isn't of global consequence........but it's started here....in rural America.........and when "they" finally get it....it will be too late for some........like Blue's parents!

So.........I guess I was wrong......maybe there IS more to see here.......but I thought it was getting too deep......

But, maybe we actually need to talk about it.

I'll let you all be the judge!

all I have to say (and boy do I expect the slam to follow).... the condition of our economy has nothing to do with Pres. Bush... sorry.. I don't buy it for a moment... he hasn't been in office long enough to turn around the mess that Clinton did...

I'm not sure it was entirely Clinton's mess.
One thing a lot of people DON'T say about the tech bubble is how many extra staff were on hand EVERYWHERE to re-write code for potential Y2K disasters, that never happened! After 1/1/2000, and after all that code was cleaned up, all those people could be, and WERE let go!
That and look at the tech cycles (and yeah, I am talkin tech here, but it IS my background).
First generation, 70s computers - were for hobbyists and geeks.
Second generation, late 70s, were for some businesses (think Visicalc), schools, home users and so on.
Third generation, early 80s included the first IBMs. Now ALL the businesses wanted to get on board. A lot of the late 70s companies continued, but started to offer compatibility for CP/M and MS-DOS.
Mid-80s was the fourth generation, the birth of the GUIs. Macintosh. Windows Version 1. Atari's ST. Commodore's Amiga.
A number of people who had the 70s stuff and could afford to, upgraded to the newer machines, because they had graphics capabilities that were totally new to home users.
Around the early 90s Amiga and Atari discontiuned their computers. Microsoft released Windows 3.1/3.11, and Apple was looking at PowerPCs. About the same time, the web got its graphical face, thanks to Mosaic. And once ISPs started offering it, EVERYONE wanted to get on the Internet. That meant more machines, for home and business.
Then late 90s, start adding different recording media (zip, cd-r, cd-rw, dvd-r, etc). And now we're here.
Parts are CHEAP, margins in PC sales are GONE. The only place left to make money is in services, because they're no easier to use now than they were 10-15 years ago (take WHAT arrow and move it where and click with WHAT button?). So no wonder that whole sector is so depressed (probably economically as well as emotionally).
No more quick .com startups, no more Linux bandwagon, no REAL reason to make major upgrades (it's very easy to do in increments - add more RAM, then do the video board another month, etc.) and that means no big transactions.
Yes the consumer does help in little ways with each purchase and upgrade (even in non-tech areas), but it's going to take a lot of mood-lifting to get people to really spend again.

There's my two cents.

The more I think about this topic….. and this nations economic problems.. the more heated I become.

First, let me say (in order to erase any doubts), my father is proud I am a republican.. LOL… just had to say it…
Altho my gut reaction is to blame Billary for ALL of the woes that this country is experiencing in the aftermath of his terms, as a somewhat intelligent (depending on the topic) person, I know that isn’t entirely true. In all fairness, Billary was/is only one in a string of slimy politicians who continue to put their own goals and desires before the needs of the people. Although that being said, I still firmly believe that 75% of the mess we find our selves in now can be linked to that mans greed and selfishness…


Thanks to the web, I was able to get some figures that I thought might interest all of you… after reading these numbers… maybe it will become a bit more clear as to why our economy is the way that it is…

Congress: Rank-and-File Members' Salary
In December, 2001, Congress voted not to block a scheduled pay increase raising the annual salary for a rank-and-file Senator or Representative by $4,900 to $150,000 per year. This increase, the third in the last four years, goes into effect on Jan. 1, 2002. Since 1990, (ironically who was the president for the majority of that time?) congressional pay has increased from $98,400 to $150,000.

Congress: Leadership Members' Salary (108th Congress)
Leaders of the House and Senate are paid a higher salary than rank-and-file members.
Senate Leadership
Majority Leader - $161,200 (Sen. Bill Frist)
Minority Leader - $161,200 (Sen. Thomas Daschle)
House Leadership
Speaker of the House - $186,300 (Rep. Dennis Hastert)
Majority Leader - $161,200 (Rep. Dick Armey)
Minority Leader - $161,200 (Rep. Nancy Pelosi)

I don’t believe for a moment that ANY public servant should be paid that amount of money. Especially when you consider the limited work they do and the limited period of time they are expected to do it in.

The bottom line is.. our economy and our willingness to allow politicians to RAPE the tax payers is the fundamental reason why this country is as bad off as it is. We allow our politicians to become multi millionaires on taypayers money yet out teachers are hardly scraping by. Until we as a people oust our politicians, there is nothing that is going to change.

Okay.. off my soap box…