It doesn't come natural to me. I'm not the type to defer my opinions or with-hold my suggestions. I know this surprises you all

So I'm being "supervised" currently and the ladies are terrific. They are receptive to me and share their space and their knowledge with me. But I don't do submissive well and I fear my independent nature will appear abrasive.

Do you guys have any advice or suggestions on subtle ways to speak my mind without coming off cock-sure? So far, so good but I'm stuck in a situation where I am interning in a field I've worked in for 10 years before. These women are wonderful and have a lot to teach me but having done these type of things in the past, there are some things I know how to do and like doing the way I do. When I speak to them regarding those things I don't want to come off like I'm suggesting I know more, just that I've already developed in those areas.

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The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

I often preface my suggestions with the following phrases...

"Have you ever thought about...."
"Would you be willing to..."
"Have you ever tried.....? How did it work?"
"I'd like your thoughts on..."

Sometimes these get transparent, but people appreciate the courtesy nonetheless.

Just make sure to listen to their responses. It helps to build credibility.

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Life is too short not to love and be loved....preferably multiple times in one night.

I think men talk to women so they can sleep with them and women sleep with men so they can talk to them. ~ Jay McInerney

IMO...

I would be honest. Go to them and tell them you want to talk about something that you are struggling with (appearing to need thier suggestions here would be good). Let them know what you are feeling, and how you DON'T want to appear or come off as if you know it all already. Let some of your frustration show when you tell them this and ask them how they would like you to approach them with your opinion, suggestions, or the knowledge you have gained thru your previous experiences. Tell them that sometimes you struggle with being a follower rather than a leader and that is your weakest strength in some situations. (I like using weakest strength together in an education setting.. it is a positive more than a negative). This way, if they offer their suggestions as to how you can offer them suggestions (lol) then when you do lead you can thank them for giving you the opportunity to do so and thank them for helping you find a way to express yourself from their suggestions...



Did that make any sense? LOL

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A blessed thing it is for any man or woman to have a friend, one human soul whom we can trust utterly, who knows the best and worst of us, and who loves us in spite of all our faults.

Yes...I think you said kiss ass and lie

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

LOL.. in a nice way of course..

I'm not good at kissing ass, as I prefer to be on the receiving end.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

Well, you could just slowly integrate your philosophy into what you are doing and see what the reaction is. How long are you required to intern?

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A blessed thing it is for any man or woman to have a friend, one human soul whom we can trust utterly, who knows the best and worst of us, and who loves us in spite of all our faults.

Yes. The time frame is important and your current purpose. How long is this internship and how will it conjoin your next move, if at all? If this is merely prescribed sequence that you honestly do have a leg up on, give it the attention it warrants and concentrate on the bigger picture you are headed for. (keep your mouth shut for a few months and make notes of what you want to address when you get beyond I know we don’t do well with faking dumb or kissing up. )

If there is going to be a close working future with these people and the situation in the next few years, you may want to take a different tact. Again, if you have some insights that may help now and in the future, the presentation seems to be what decides if you’ll be accepted or ‘shown’ that it WON’T work. Even testing the water with “here’s something that’s worked well for me …..”, will let you know if they are open and willing to look at something different, only give courteous lips service or WON’T have some snippy smartass showing them how to do it.

An opening phrases, as mentioned by Osuchem, can get attention in a negative or positive way. A few that have served me well, depending on the subject…

“Help the new kid out here. How do we…?” or “Why do we…?”
“Does that work for you or would ………….. help if we …….?”
“This is a problem. How can we…..?”
Is there a reason we can’t……….?”

While I normally am not keen on all the subtleties of group psychology, the words “we”, “us” instead of “you”, “me” versus “it”, “them” can make a difference. If your question is to get your proper acknowledgment from these established co-workers, just shut up. Your seat at ‘their’ table can ONLY be given. It can never be taken.

Don’t close your bag of tricks to a few pearls being added. There is nobody I can’t learn something from.

I KNOW the fantastic diplomacy you exercise here at Pixies is easier to execute in your soundproof room as you scream and slam your face into the monitor and fists on the keyboard, than face-to-face dealings, but keeping your objective ahead of the people in mind will not fail you.

:cents:

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OK Lixy...give PF back his puter

I am confident I am going to learn so much from these ladies. They both seem to have attributes I hope to have rub off on me. I have about 25 pages of notes and that is just from 5 days. Trust me in that I know I have lots to learn. That being said, I just want my ideas to come off as ideas not more. I'm working on putting things out there for discussion when I am used to just doing it the way I see fit. I used to run a school with the teachers working for me and so I think I'm just adjusting to the change in dynamics.

I'm having a great time and in 14 weeks I know I'll be happy but sorry it went by so fast.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

Oh and PF I understand your point about time. Am I building relationships that are going to be long term or just temporary? When I took the internship, it was made known that they would love me to take a position there, however I'm not sure that the school's outlook on ESE matches my own personal philosophy so I'm not sure what time frame I'm looking at. So I'd rather be safe than sorry.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

I have been in your same situation though I didn't have quite the same amount of experience going in as you do. IN the end I had to basically just deal with it knowing that soon enough I would be on my "own" so to speak and basically just have to keep that in mind. And to help get that "I have to kiss ass" taste out of your mouth so to speak..

I vollunteer to help kiss your ass as much as you allow when you are not at work to let you keep right on dominating. :lust:

At any rate dear I am hoping that your job becomes easier soon and that before long you will be on your own and find yourself not quite in the same postion. Know we all lurv you here and are here to support you.

/bow

Zeph

be straight up. tell them you can come off as abrasive but you don't mean to. tell them you’ve got the experience and ideas and are not afraid to show it and share. tell them you can’t wait to learn all they’ve got to teach you and you hope you can teach them something as well.

tell them that if your getting high and mighty to knock you upside the head.

don't dissemble, it's not like you and you wouldn't pull it off well.

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Trees give peace to the souls of men * Nora Waln

The forest would be very quiet if no other birds sang than those who sing the best * Henry van Dyke

some fairly sordid tales, rambles, and anecdotes
Hypothetically Speaking * Something More * Cammy Interrupted * An Experimental Vacation * Masked * so..damn..hot * Thank You * My toy, his idea * no.19 Maple Lane * I Have A Surprise For You * Yesterday * In a Quiet Kitchen * help me decide * untitled prose * more untitled prose

Agree with Osuche...a non-threatening way to offer suggestions/ideas while also saying "Hey, I'm still learning".

I don't think that I could give you any advice...partly because you've already gotten some good suggestions here...and partly because I seem to have the exact opposite problem. I am by nature a very passive person and even though it doesn't really interfere with my independence, I must say that it makes things very difficult for me. Its not so much that I don't have my own opinions or that I'm afraid to voice them...its just that when I do, I'm usually horribly subtle. I wish I had it in me to take control of certain situations, but I find it extremely hard and often I just feel as though its forced, unnatural, or that i've embarassed myself. I just wanted to let you know that I admire your dominant personality and I'm sure that you'll find a way to avoid coming off as abrasive while still preserving your independent outlook

goodluck!

:grin: :grin:

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