Hi all my Pixies Friends,

This is going to get a little confusing, and at the least, a bit complicated, so please bear with me.

I'd like some help from you here if you could. What I'd like to know if I am being fair to myself and my son, specifically to him.

My wife paid me a visit yesterday, asking me to consider not finalizing our divorce, since we are going to be getting a court date within the next 2 weeks.

She has indicated for about 9 months now that she wants me to leave my apartment and return to our house. From the time I was forced to leave my home ( in Feb 2004), I have told her that I would consider returning, if there were to be changes regarding my role in the household. The biggest of these changes is that I would be a "parental figure" to all the kids in the household, not just my son.

I told her once again that the only way I would consider moving back to the house is if I am able to be a parental figure to her daughters, as well as my son. She admitted that they would not accept me in that role.

I then said that we might as well finalize the divorce, since I would not return under the current circumstances.

She then started bawling like a baby, accusing me of being completely selfish and not having the least concern for her well being, and I was not offering her any support or help at all.

I asked her what she expected me to do TO support and help her thru this ordeal.

This is more or less the list (in no particular order):

Come to the house and visit just to see her
Come to the house and bring her cards and/or flowers becasuse she '"needed" them.
Take her out on "dates" so she could have time away from the stresses in her life.
Come over and help with things around the house like lawn mowing or in the winter time snow removal.
Go to couples therapy sessions with her to enable us to have a relationship.


I told her that since I didn't live in the house, I didn't feel as though I needed to have some of the housekeeping responsibilities.

I told her as well that if it would help her out, I would start attending couples therapy, but I still want to be divorced.

I care for her, but to be honest am no longer in love with her. I don't want to see her hurt, nor to hurt her any more, but I am not going to be "married but living seperately".

:bang:

Am I the one who is being selfish?
Is she correct?
Or is she just not understanding that she's being unrealistic?

Much thanks.

Having had an interesting introduction to Mrs. nutworld that one time, I'd say she wants to have her cake, eat it too, and have you wash the plate she ate it off.

You have every right to be honest with yourself and her about your expectations and what you want from a relationship.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
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What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

LOL.

Thank you Lilith.

It seems to me that she's trying to manipulate me into returning, and trying to make me feel guilty, despite the fact that she's the one who has chosen all along to enable her daughters to be "in control".

Even if it conflicts with what her wishes and needs are.

Yet she expects me to "be there" for her.

It's hard to comment since there has got to be a great deal of back story we haven't heard. However, you did say you don't love her anymore. I think if you're done as a couple then you are not being selfish... you are being single.

Good luck!

__________________
Put me on wheels and I'll turn tricks.

Clever? Nah, I ran out of that years ago. But if you find this, let me know, k?
"The road goes ever on..." ~ Tolkien

In memory of my friend skip...
Go then, there are other worlds than these

You are the one who is going to have to live with your actions, and her actions and reactions because of them. Anything less than what will make you happy is not worth it.

(And that's all I'm going to say about that.)

__________________


"Life is too short to wake up in the morning with regrets. So love the people who treat you right, forget about the ones who don't, and believe that everything happens for a reason. If you get a chance, take it. If it changes your life, then let it, and if you have to wait for what you really want, take the time because nobody said that life would be easy. They just promised it would be worth it." ~ Unknown author

yes....she does sound manipulative. since you share a son it makes things pretty difficult. i don't suppose you want to alienate her but you can't let her be the only selfish one either. perhaps some sort of therapy is a good idea....not couples but maybe family therapy?
good luck (((nutworld)))

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The forest would be very quiet if no other birds sang than those who sing the best * Henry van Dyke

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Hmmm - complicated.

It sounds to me as though she has unrealistic expectations of what a relationship is going to be. She wants romance and 'love' but she's not prepared to make any sacrifices or compromises and you have to make tonnes of them, just to accomodate her.

I can only speak from a personal point of view, which is that I wouldn't want to be in that position.

You're sending her mixed messages saying that you'll go to therapy but you want to be divorced still, though. Either you're prepared to go to counselling in which case staying together is your primary priority and objective, or you're ending the marriage and you're going your separate ways.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

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Thanks everyone!!

Loulabelle- Yes I admit that I am sendind a mixed message by going to therapy, but my rational for that is: if it helps me maintain a cohesive relationship with her, as she raises my son, he lives with her- I get him 1 or 2 days a week, and we can present some form of a united front when parenting him, it will be worth it.

We have had a very divided front when it comes to parenting her girls, and that has been a huge part of our problems, and I want to avoid a repeat of that situation with my son.

Yes, it "should" automatically be different as I AM his parent, unlike the girls, but I'm not going to allow myself to be pushed to the back burner with my own child, as I was with the other 2 children involved.

When you setup the plan with the therapist make them aware of the long term goals. Spend as much time in the present planning for the future as possible.

There's a saying, "Look at the past but don't stare."

Set boundaries on the relationship. Are going to be the husband, father or houseboy?

It sounds like she still wants parts of the marriage but not all. Being parents to our son is really important. What else is important?


Tom

As mentioned by others ... don't know the whole story .... but, I don't know many women who wouldn't like a man to give them flowers, take them on dates, help with the housework and then not require anything in return .... I mean if we're looking for the fantasy! .... of course most of us live in the real world and must function there as well ... from what you've said, it doesn't sound like you are being selfish, in fact it sounds like she needs to take a look around at how hard many divorced moms have it and be grateful for a (soon to be) ex who is so interested in maintaining a peaceful and even flow between the 2 of you, especially so you son can have a peaceful and even flow in his life!

I'd say that if she's pushed you from the house and from being her partner ... then she doesn't get to require your support in any way other than in raising your son ... not that you can't help her out here and there to keep the peace, but don't let her tie up your free time which may well be better used in the pursuit of your own lasting happiness ... and that is not being selfish ... it's simply taking care of yourself. Best of luck!

LOL~~~> are her daughters old enough to mow the lawn?

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

Hi guys,

I'm not quite sure if its appropriate to put all my dirty laundry involving this situation here, as it would get plenty confusing.

I appreciate your imput and help regarding this issue. As I expected, I'm getting honest feedback, and helpful remarks.

To help clarify things a bit, we've been married for almost 8 years, but I've been living in my own apartment, after one of her daughters,told a social worker that I was abusive (not in a physical manner I MUST stress) to her and her sister, when she was admitted to the psych ward of a local hospital. The social worker told my wife that she would not release the child to her custody as long as I was living in the house, and so I was basically evicted from my home in Feb, 2004.

The now 15 y/o girl was admitted to a hospital with psychological issues, including being diagnosed as a "cutter" as well as manic depressive, that required 8 hospital visits, 4 seperate day treatment centers in an 8 month span.

Her sister (now 13) has also been seeing a therapist, for her willingness to "compete" with her older sister for attention, and the "rewards"- (attention, sympathy gifts) that she has gotten for her behavior. She has not been as drastic in her actions however.

Prior to these more recent (for lack of a better term) acts, I was unsuccessful in a career in Real Estate sales for a year, and unemployed for 6 months that added lots of stress to my wife's role as family breadwinner.

I also attended college and dropped out, in another unsuccessful attempt to make myself be more "respectable, and stable" in the eyes of her children. These attempts resulted in failure, that was very quickly noticed by the children, and capitalized upon, for them to consider me even more of a failure.
This resulted in them telliing me numerous times that I couldn't tell them what do do, since I wasn't their parent, and that the house wasn't mine,but my wifes.

As a result of my many failures, I became depressed, and for a time, would fake leaving the house to go to work or school, when in fact I would stay at home, spending my day on the computer. I lied to cover these acts up, and eventually was caught, in my lies.

My wife has deserved better treatment from me, during the course of our marriage, and to be honest, I'm not sure WHY she would want me to return to the house. I will be the first to admit that I have wronged her many times, with my own actions or lack thereof.

She is not guilt free from her own shortcomings, as she has enabled her daughters to "run" the house, and she has steadfastly refused to admit that she has given the "control" to them.

I don't know if divulging some of these details has helped any, but many of you have commented that you weren't aware of some of the issues, and have tried to give the best advice as you could give, given the limited ammount of informaton. Maybe this will help.

Fire away if you feel the desire.

Thanks
Nutworld

Live and learn and then live and learn again .... let me at least say that I respect your honesty in revealing your own shortcomings (so to speak)....but also, just because you may not yet have found the right path for yourself, doesn't make you a failure ... history is filled with those who seemed to be going nowhere for a very long time only to ultimately FINALLY find the right path for themselves and then they changed the world! I hope you find that path for yourself quickly (if you haven't already) and that you also are able to find people who see and nurture the light inside you! It is my wish for you and all of our pixies people!

Lilith,
Yes they are, but it doesn't mean that they will decide to DO it, even if asked.

Was just dropping in (didn't sign in...just clicked on the site to try and do a fast catch up...still working my ass off...but that's another story...*sigh*) and came across this thread. Had to sign in to comment cause I luv ya nutworld...and of course I have to add my 2 pennies!

As I started reading, I was just gonna skip some replies and make a quick comment. Something told me to read on...to read the entire contents of the thread. As unusual as it seems...I actually listened to my inner voice and read on.

Here's my 2 pennies...for what they are worth (I know...I know...they are worth 2 fucking pennies...lmfao!)

I will never get used to this "new age" of child rearing! I respected my elders because I was RAISED to respect my elders!!!! These days, children DEMAND their own respect as if they are in control of their elders...and the funny thing is, they are! WE did that! We are the reason they have us in their control. Yet...WE still wonder what happened to the youth of the day?????????????

*quoting a song from Bye Bye Birdie*..."Why can't they be like we were...perfect in every way...What's the matter with kids today?"

There is NOTHING wrong with the kids of today that we didn't predispose (is that a word?...is now!) them to! I say "we"...meaning every parent and family member who is dealing with...today's issues of disipline, working parents, guilt of lack of quality time and therefore overkill on material ownership without them actually earning the privledge...etc.! Kids have found us to be an easy mark to take advantage of because we have enough guilt to show them our weakness. I was a smart kid and had my family situation been anything like what I see now...shit yeah...I might have stacked the deck in my favor too! Don't blame the girls nutworld. They are smart and have made the best of their situation (manipualtion isn't for the feeble minded!!!)

I've always had a feeling that there are THREE sides to every relationship. Hers, his and the actuality (from a bystanders point of view). You have strong convictions of the happenings and goings on...she has strong convictions of the happenings and goings on...and then there is the person[s] who can see the forest fore the trees.

It's good, nutworld, that you have stepped out of the situation and can now have a different perspective. Sounds to me though, that you are hanging on to your convictions that [she] has let the kids rule the family. It isn't just her fault...it's yours too hun. You married her knowing the situation. Am I right? And...if I may be so bold...Have you and her argued the point in ear shot of the girls? They gotcha there if you did!!!! They know from the first overheard comment that it's your (you and your wife's) Achiles heel!

So let's boil this down from my point of view...k?

What do you want? Do you want to revive the relationship that was with your wife? Or...do you want out? Loulabelle is right on in saying you can't go to therapy with no intention of rekindling the relationship! You just can't! It's just wrong to pretend because in the end the pretense will bite you in the butt!

Speaking of butts....BUT, if you do want it back...the love, the passion, the fire, the reason you fell in love...you have to go to therapy just to convince yourself and your wife (and the kids too) that this is a family in distress and this is the help we need and this is the way it's gonna be! Granted...it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks (change is so hard for some to take)...but with love, time, determination, diligence, and TLC, it can happen!

The question is...

Do YOU have the love, time, determination, diligence, and TLC to take on such a humongous task?

If the answer to any of those choices is no...MOVE ON! And...let her know that if she didn't want you then, she might want you less now since you've had a chance to step back and see that you and her were good at making a beautiful baby together, but the demands to make you change (or you to make her change) your convictions are too hard to ignore!

Oh geezzzzzzzz...I hope this came out as intended! Only trying to help hun!

((((((((((((nutworld)))))))))))))

__________________
Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.

~Thomas Dewar~